Rights when giving up seat for friend

Old Jun 5, 22, 3:14 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
Thank you. I have learned something (which I love). I thought crew hours were binary.
There are absolute "black and white" limits but there is also a kind of "zone of discretion" before that.
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Old Jun 5, 22, 3:17 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
We got on a plane! Hooray! Now a further 35 minute delay because of something something.

Mood music from the captain is trying to blame weather...

At least you are on! Weather will be causing issues, this from eurocontol…..

General Outlook

South Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and west Czech with widespread CB's top FL420 and higher forecast during the evening period.
Severe CB activity prolonged thoughout the night moving towards east-south east, high probability for clusters with tops above FL400, ongoing into the night
forecast south of the ALPs, Hungary,Croatia and Serbia.

This will impact ATC sector and aerodrome capacity's, with high delays expected.
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Old Jun 5, 22, 3:49 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Sigwx View Post
The Commander will be able to ask or check what time the crew members all reported for duty. The outbound to Pisa was delayed whilst they awaited crew to arrive so I’d imagine they have either positioned in from HEL to LHR to then operate, or have been nightstopping in LHR and couldn’t report any earlier due to minimum rest requirements. Either way the most limiting case for FTLs is the crew reporting in HEL then positioning to LHR to operate LHR-PSA-LHR. I can’t see any mega delays in any HEL - LHR sector today by Finnair so I’d imagine they have nightstopped at LHR.

Either way, plenty in the tank so to speak for hours left on the clock, with commanders discretion as a possible backup.
I think they are all shipped out the day before they operate their first sector - i.e, they are never crew who have already operated a HEL-LHR that day.

Most of the J cabin on the AY A350 yesterday afternoon from HEL to LHR was AY positioning crew in civvies, so my guess is they are shipped out on day 0, do 2/4 sector days for days 1 to say 3/4/5 (not sure how many days they can do in a tour), then head back to HEL. I imagine they are all based in a hotel near LHR for their tour, and that the routes are all deliberately chosen as ones with 1-2 hr block times and with no nightstoppers.

Last edited by KARFA; Jun 5, 22 at 4:07 pm Reason: fix a typo
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Old Jun 5, 22, 4:50 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
We got on a plane! Hooray! Now a further 35 minute delay because of something something.

Mood music from the captain is trying to blame weather...
It could be worse. you could have been on that TATL VS flight that had to return to London because the co pilot hadn’t passed the necessary final flying test to meet Virgin’s stringent training protocols.

A Virgin Atlantic flight has reportedly been forced into a u-turn because a pilot was still in training. The flight was 40 minutes into a journey from the UK to New York when it turned back.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ced-u-23867853

Safe travels, hope it’s a smooth ride.
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Old Jun 5, 22, 5:58 pm
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
There are absolute "black and white" limits but there is also a kind of "zone of discretion" before that.
And throw in that a lot of variables e.g. if a crew member is acclimatised or not and that may limit the hours etc. Computer may have a general idea but ultimately it's the SCCM's responsibility to work out the most limiting crew member's hours and inform the captain, and in delay situations discretion can be applied. Working out flight duty hours can be a minefield and not black and white. There are black and white absolute maximums but a lot of variables may increase/ decrease that maximum.
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Old Jun 5, 22, 7:04 pm
  #36  
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And home. Thanks as ever to this amazing team. I learned to chill (a bit), learned about flying hours (quite a lot) and will let you know how 261 delay comp goes (not hopeful but we will see).
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Old Jun 6, 22, 1:28 am
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
And home. Thanks as ever to this amazing team. I learned to chill (a bit), learned about flying hours (quite a lot) and will let you know how 261 delay comp goes (not hopeful but we will see).
we all learnt a lot as well.
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Old Jun 6, 22, 2:37 am
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Great this all ended well.

I was surprised to read comments where people believed the flight would not have left london if the crew went out of hours dpwn route.

That is not my experience. This board will remember the relatively recent 872/873 krakow rotation tgat i predicted would leave london then overnight in krk, which is what happened on that occassion.

while i was not directly involved in that flight, i was on a lhr,-waw rotation that had a 3 hour ground delay at lhr with us all on board. The aircraft was supposed to return that but again overnighted in waw.

So i do not think it is clear that the aircraft would not leave lhr
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Old Jun 6, 22, 2:44 am
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There was one mentioned here that overnighted in Paris recently following a very late flight from LHR. I wonder if these days as BA isn't so short of aircraft they're happier to send a flight down and do a "semi planned" night stop and at least get one lot of passengers to their destination on the right day! I do doubt that Finnair would do that though since their aircraft would likely be needed back at base in the morning for a flight

As a random aside I think Finnair do rotate aircraft and presumably some crew in on their AY coded HEL-LHR-HEL nightstopper. But as they've got multiple aircraft based here then it makes sense that some would need to position in
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Old Jun 6, 22, 2:56 am
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And did your friend get a seat?
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Old Jun 6, 22, 4:20 am
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet View Post
Great this all ended well.

I was surprised to read comments where people believed the flight would not have left london if the crew went out of hours dpwn route.

That is not my experience. This board will remember the relatively recent 872/873 krakow rotation tgat i predicted would leave london then overnight in krk, which is what happened on that occassion.

while i was not directly involved in that flight, i was on a lhr,-waw rotation that had a 3 hour ground delay at lhr with us all on board. The aircraft was supposed to return that but again overnighted in waw.

So i do not think it is clear that the aircraft would not leave lhr
Very true, happened to me in PRG, the BA flight touched down and then was cancelled and we were informed in the lounge.
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Old Jun 6, 22, 7:16 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Barrheadlass View Post
And did your friend get a seat?
Yes. Thank you. Nobody appeared to be denied boarding so must just have been a gremlin in the system somewhere!
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Old Jun 6, 22, 7:26 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
Yes. Thank you. Nobody appeared to be denied boarding so must just have been a gremlin in the system somewhere!
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Old Jun 6, 22, 7:27 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie View Post
Yes. Thank you. Nobody appeared to be denied boarding so must just have been a gremlin in the system somewhere!
I would say this is the pretty much the opposite of a gremlin: BA slightly overbooked the service, but didn't oversell it. Hence my answer in post 2. They had, some time ago, cancelled an earlier departure so it was always going to be busy.
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Old Jun 6, 22, 9:29 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I would say this is the pretty much the opposite of a gremlin: BA slightly overbooked the service, but didn't oversell it. Hence my answer in post 2. They had, some time ago, cancelled an earlier departure so it was always going to be busy.
indeed not a gremlin at all, just an overwhelming confirmation of what almost everyone said in this thread: that the most likely outcome by far was that it would all fall into place once no shows etc were confirmed.
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