Moonstone1234

This isn’t happening to me btw but I heard Simon Calder on the BBC earlier and he said if your flight is cancelled at the last minute say from NYC back to LHR and they say you need to wait 2 days can you book yourself on anything including Club or First and the Original airline pays? That assumes there are no Economy seats available of course. Are you expected to look into all flights returning back home regardless before you throw the towel in and say Club is the only seat available.

I have chosen NYC to LHR as an example because there are so many options?

My sister was caught up in an EasyJet fiasco a few weeks ago and they told her she needed to wait until the available EasyJet flight which she did but on reflection she thinks she should have been checking other airlines too.

Sorry to put this on BA forum. Wasn’t sure where to put this query!

mario

There appears to be a lot of misinformation when it comes to your rights on rebooking. The best guide to this is here: http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...0(CAP2155).pdf

To spare you reading all of this: the airline should aim to reroute you to your final destination in your booked class of travel at the earliest opportunity regardless of the operating carrier

My MO for cancellations and rerouting is to find the best option that suits me and ask the airline to book it.

If they refuse or are unreachable, document it (get the person's name and circumstances in which you were refused or unable to reach them), book your own ticket and ask for reimbursement. They'll probably refuse that, at which point MCOL it.
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corporate-wage-slave

I didn't hear this item from Mr. Calder, but it's way too simplistic. There are details in the main EC261 case, but you need to move with some caution here, and it's unlikely airlines generally will endorse this approach. EC261 does not give a direct right to rebook on other airlines, and there hasn't been a substantive CJEU case on the matter. However there have been some side rulings in this area, for example one involving TAP where TAP found themselves on the hook for more compensation when there were alternative services available. There is also a Ryanair case (where someone did rebook themselves out of a cancellation) where the courts held that with some provisos that it was ok to do this. Finally the CAA has put down some expectations about providing help and options to passengers, which no airline is actually doing, but includes a view that if the airline cannot get someone to travel on the same calendar day as the booking then they should use an alternative airlines.

So this is a lot more nuanced than suggested in post 1. To my mind a lot hinges on reasonableness, which was a big factor in the Ryanair case. So if your flight from NYC is cancelled and BA says "well you have to wait 3 days", that would be unreasonable if there were any seats going on other airlines - and frankly seats in Economy are much more numerous than other cabins. If you took the hump and gave up on your £355 World Traveller Basic return fare to book a £5,000 Delta business class ticket then that would seem to me to fail the reasonableness test unless there were underlying factors that made it reasonable (e.g. getting to a close relative's wedding was the sole reason for travel and this really was the only way to do it). As it happens it would be incredibly rare for BA to make people wait anything other than overnight in NYC, there are so many BA, IB, AY, AA, Lufthansa Group options.

easyJet suffers from a particular issue in this space, in that their contact centres and IT only allow rebooking on easyJet services. At some point the passenger may take the view that this is unreasonable. Both airlines pay off people at MCOL level if it gets there, they hate having to defend this in court, easyJet have been known to pay via Customer Relations, BA sometimes will at CR level, but not often.

corporate-wage-slave

That wouldn't be my reading of sections 4.1 and 4.2, so personally I think it's an over-simplistic reading. At some point other airlines need to be considered, but I don't think it is an accurate reflection of the document's expections that it is "regardless".

PAL62V

I find Mr Calder could sometimes benefit from the experience of many here on FT. He suffers from over simplifying a lot of travel issues.

mario

My interpretation of sections 4.1 and 4.2 is that if there's a reasonable option on the same carrier, same class of travel and on the same day as the original flight, then the passenger should take it.

Same if any alternative options coincide with similar times offered by the original carrier.

What I find baffling is that the advice here often discourages people from doing anything other than take the carrier's decision at face value. Should you rebook yourself on another carrier that will arrive an hour before the option offered by your carrier? Probably not. Should you take action if your airline tells you your next flight is in three days or even tomorrow when other options are available today? Sorry, but yes you should.

corporate-wage-slave

I try to be accurate and give all options in my posts in the EC261 area. There is indeed an element of caution, in that it would be a bad idea to raise expections and encourage people down a course of action which is likely to fail. So look at your post 2, let's say someone read it at face value, and rebooked the earliest flight possible regardless, then lost at MCOL, would you be prepared to pay that person's court costs? Your post 6 on the other hand is more nuanced than post 2, and I largely agree with it, so what gives?

KARFA

Yes, but that's not what you said above. You said "My MO for cancellations and rerouting is to find the best option that suits me and ask the airline to book it." Basically despite criticising others for their advice on here, your own advice was misleading in suggesting you could just demand what you want regardless, and then claim for the cost back if they refused. As you acknowledge now, that is clearly not the entitlement provided by EC261, and is not advice I think anyone should be following in those simple terms.

Also despite your comment, I have seen many times advice being given to rebook oneself and claim for long rebooking waits like the 3 days you note - although I would also say at least for BA and most of the routes they serve, delays for BA offered rebooking options of that length are very rare. Typically a 1 day delay or maybe 2 are the most that tend to happen.

At one end of the extreme I think the OP's example of easyjet only offering their own flights and only a rebook 3 days in advance is a strong case for booking yourself and claiming back. What the airline has offered is not really reasonable, or "at the earliest convenience" if there are many other flights with space on the affected route in the intervening 3 days. However, at the other end of the extreme if the airline offers you a flight say 6 hours later, but you find one only 2 hours later that the airline won't offer, would it be a likely case for you to win if you booked the earlier and tried to claim it back? Certainly a lot more grey in that situation.

lcylocal

Fair point. But this should be relatively unusual with BA. The calls centres can rebook to a pretty wide range of carriers for short notice cancellations, and airport staff wider still I believe. Having been stranded by EasyJet previously this is a key advantage of the legacy carriers for me, along with one ticket connections.

Also I would take a slightly sub-optimal route home (say an indirect route or a few hours delay over the best alternative, not a three day delay) to avoid being out of pocket for the new flight and the hassle of reclaiming through MCOL. YMMV.

Ladyfliestheredwhiteandblues

I think the “unreasonableness” we are seeing appear more in some passengers is a reaction to the unreasonableness of BA. How many times are we seeing that people just can’t get through on the phone lines or when they do they are given a poor response? People panic when far from home with few options to get them back in the short term. More so if they are infrequent fliers unaware of resources such as FT.
I agree that passengers should be more circumspect and follow some of the excellent advice here but that’s not human nature.

jeremyBA

Not sure it is a rare as you may think.

I have just got off easyJet from Palma. The 10:45 easyJet was cancelled

there are no seats on ba / Ryanair / easyJet until Wednesday.

the best was veuling indirect at some e600

the flights are sold out for days so when easyJet cancelled it this morning they will know they have now got 200 pax at the end of half term who will miss school etc.

the only way home is long and expensive.

Moonstone1234

Thank you all. People do worry and the BA call centres are not in a great state. LHR to New York is not a particularly good example because there are so many other options.

I remember flying with United a number of years ago. They sent a plane that was too small and had to offload 100 plus people and we were queuing for 2 hours to check in. The check in agent was very keen for me to go tomorrow on the next free United flight. I pleaded for something that day, any airport, any flight, sit separately and of course any airline. I think in the end he felt sorry for me so we got a Virgin flight hours later and at a different terminal but we did get out that day.

sunshinebob

And its not just a UK/Brexit issue , hearing that
Schiphol was so overwhelmed yesterday that KLM did not carry any travelers back to the airport in the afternoon and evening.

binman

In the event of a cancellation within two weeks of your flight only the passenger has the choice, the airlines wishes don't come into to it. You can get a full refund, reroute on any other airline or re booked at a date and time of your choosing.

To be fair the easier way to deal with this is by having belt and braces approach. Good travel insurance is key.

If you find your flight is cancelled on the day it will be impossible to contact the airline. I think this is now agreed and unless you are at the airport, where they don't want you to be, It will not be possible for the operating carrier to re book you. So do it yourself, and then claim back. You must book the lowest class available so no booking F when WT plus is available.

Claim from the carrier and if that fails the insurer.

For cancellations in advance give the carrier the chance.

For cancellations on the day just get on with it yourself

OverTheHorizon

AMS swiftly becoming the Manchester of the Mainland, it seems