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BA blames flight cancellations on Covid-19 and refuses to pay compensation

BA blames flight cancellations on Covid-19 and refuses to pay compensation

Old May 11, 2022, 3:08 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
And those are arguments, among others, that will be advanced by a claimant in court. IIRC BA was losing £20m a day during the lockdown, I read yesterday that IAG has lost €916m in the first 3 months of this year, and a whopping €10b since the start of the pandemic. Of course airlines have had to make tough financial decisions to help them survive, after all these are (were?) extraordinary times requiring drastic action for survival.

BA will have an uphill struggle with this, but nevertheless there is an arguable defence in law and given the serious financials involved it doesn’t surprise me they are trying to run that defence. Have no doubt, other airlines will be watching very carefully.
I'm struggling to understand what that arguable defence is more than two years into the pandemic.

The trouble for BA is that UK has never stopped people from flying. The rules imposed upon us both in the UK and elsewhere were an attempt to stop the spread of the disease and prevent the pandemic. With the benefit of hindsight we can say nowhere has done very well handling this.

Early on in the pandemic I'd agree that Covid was an extraordinary circumstance but two years on for BA to claim that it is still extraordinary is stretching credulity. Particularly since we seem to have returned to normality in most of the destinations BA currently flies to.

The airline should have control over what flights it operates, and it should have some idea of sickness levels and the resources needed to resolve that if it intends to operate the number of flights it schedules. It chooses what flights and routes it will operate. If it sells tickets for those flights it should reasonably operate them.

What BA appears to be doing is selling as many tickets as it can for many flights during the day and then closer to the date reviewing those decisions and arbritrarily cancelling multiple frequency flights and consolidating into only a few and then blaming those cancellations on the "extraordinary circumstance" of Covid.

Sean Doyle was blaming BA's woes on Heathow Airport the other week, saying that BA was hamstrung because T4 still isn't open. This seems to be yet another excuse to avoid compensating passengers for its own incompetence.

That it is struggling to do anything well and is suffering financially as a result is not unexpected.

Edit: While I sympathise with BA's financial woes I do not see the airline disappearing any time soon and therefore will still book flights with them. I reaonably expect a flight to operate as scheduled. What I do not expect is for BA to cancel that flight closer to the date and blame that decision on Covid in order to avoid its obligations to compensate me for its own incompetence.
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Last edited by AJA_; May 11, 2022 at 3:16 am
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Old May 11, 2022, 3:09 am
  #17  
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I think the extraordinary circumstances advanced by BA cannot succeed in court. They will have to justify why on a specific date and a specific route some flights were grounded and others not. What specific criteria were used by BA to cancel the flights ... medical or economic? or cancelling mostly short haul flights while maintaining long haul flights ... there is the element of discriminatory measures taken by BA ... probably deliberately favoring yield maximization ... all these are, in my opinion, difficult to justify as "extraordinary circumstances".
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Old May 11, 2022, 3:13 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by stefan_nl
The fact that BA/IAG is losing a lot of money isn't a reason to deny compensation...
No, not in itself it isn't, but what it certainly is is a strong motivation to avoid liability and to pursue all legal remedies/defences available. Those seeking compensation need to be prepared to argue their case and deal with issues of law, they should look at the circumstances objectively whilst paying attention to the legal framework and the nuances of legal argument.
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Old May 11, 2022, 3:20 am
  #19  
 
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Having had a couple of short notice flight cancellations in the last few weeks I’m inclined to cut them some slack on this one. My first thought wasn’t ‘can I get compensation?’ - it was to find a new flight and get on with my day.

They’re a business in a sector that’s suffered more than most. Navigating changing rules country by country, easing of restrictions, and in some cases new lockdowns can’t be easy. It also creates uncertainty which makes perfect resource planning nigh on impossible. Add to that staff on furlough who took the opportunity to retrain and/ or seek more secure employment outside of the sector and I’m sure we can all have some sympathy with them.

I don’t deny it’s frustrating having plans changed (we’ve had to deal with it a few times recently), but well, there’s been a pandemic that’s killed millions, which has sort of changed my perspective on what matters and what doesn’t.
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Old May 11, 2022, 3:30 am
  #20  
 
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This may just be a case of BA trying it on to see how many people simply accept their first refusal and go no further - no different from many insurance stories! If a handful of people challenge the decision and take if further BA will still save a lot of money. I am not so sure any of us would be doing anything differently were we part of the BA Management team, officially that is, I know many on here would be better at managing BA than some of the previous incumbents!
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:34 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
No, not in itself it isn't, but what it certainly is is a strong motivation to avoid liability and to pursue all legal remedies/defences available. Those seeking compensation need to be prepared to argue their case and deal with issues of law, they should look at the circumstances objectively whilst paying attention to the legal framework and the nuances of legal argument.
BA will not take these to court. People who push this will get their money, BA are just hopibg large numbers of people accept what they say and go away.

If Ryanair were doing this then this board would be saying that is what you expect from an LCC and why people here only fly BA.

It is disgraceful
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:34 am
  #22  
 
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:39 am
  #23  
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I think some commenting on this thread are struggling to separate legal arguments which do exist on both sides here, with personal opinion on whether BA should be paying compensation for late cancellations due to their own operational issues. On a very fundamental level none of what we are seeing now would have been happening had it not been for covid, that is not to say that cancellations are necessarily due to extraordinary circumstances and which BA could have avoided despite all reasonable measures.

And I say all this as someone who has a claim in atm which was initially refused, and which I have just replied to as I want my money!
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:48 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet
BA will not take these to court. People who push this will get their money, BA are just hopibg large numbers of people accept what they say and go away.

If Ryanair were doing this then this board would be saying that is what you expect from an LCC and why people here only fly BA.

It is disgraceful
You may well be right, but affected passengers have no choice but to go the CEDR or issue county court proceedings in order to have any chance of securing compensation. If BA are confident with their defence, they could try to run it. As I say, the defence is not without merit legally speaking. They could chose one case and ride with it, for the sake of throwing a few thousands at a claim they could force it to appeal and a precedent. If successful it could save them millions! If unsuccessful it's not cost them that much more in the grand scheme of things.

The lawyer in me would love to run with a case like this. It has the hallmarks of a great lawyer's case, lots to get your teeth in to evidentially and legally.
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:51 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA
I think some commenting on this thread are struggling to separate legal arguments which do exist on both sides here, with personal opinion on whether BA should be paying compensation for late cancellations due to their own operational issues. On a very fundamental level none of what we are seeing now would have been happening had it not been for covid, that is not to say that cancellations are necessarily due to extraordinary circumstances and which BA could have avoided despite all reasonable measures.

And I say all this as someone who has a claim in atm which was initially refused, and which I have just replied to as I want my money!
Using the Covid excuse for 2+ years as a reason to cancel a flight 7 days in advance is laughable. I am not sure if it’s a legal argument. Also, good luck with your claim.
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:52 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DelTroon
] I am not so sure any of us would be doing anything differently were we part of the BA Management team, officially that is, I know many on here would be better at managing BA than some of the previous incumbents!
I wouldn't be doing it; I don't go with the concept that ethics is an area north of kent

Once it has been ruled in court that covid isnt a valid defence, to continue to try and scam those with valid claims is abhorrent - regardless of what airline it is
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:54 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
You may well be right, but affected passengers have no choice but to go the CEDR or issue county court proceedings in order to have any chance of securing compensation. If BA are confident with their defence, they could try to run it. As I say, the defence is not without merit legally speaking. They could chose one case and ride with it, for the sake of throwing a few thousands at a claim they could force it to appeal and a precedent. If successful it could save them millions! If unsuccessful it's not cost them that much more in the grand scheme of things.

The lawyer in me would love to run with a case like this. It has the hallmarks of a great lawyer's case, lots to get your teeth in to evidentially and legally.
They will not take these to court, they know fine they have a very tenious legal case. They just hope people go away.

Anyone who pays the 25% to one of these no win no fee eu261 lawyers will get their money (as i did with BA some years ago pre covid)

Do you agree we would be appauled if we saw Ryanair slash flights and refuse conpensation on the same basis?
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:55 am
  #28  
 
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I have a claim in at the moment and yesterday received the third (now 21-day) automated apology for BA not getting back to me. I will be interested to see if they do try to deny it (the cancellation was at about 7 days). I had consequential additional costs and when I called to arrange the new flights, the agent did say to me to keep my receipts etc., so the playback of my call wouldn't be beneficial to BA!

Last edited by ThatT1Feeling; May 11, 2022 at 5:02 am
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Old May 11, 2022, 4:58 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ermis177
Using the Covid excuse for 2+ years as a reason to cancel a flight 7 days in advance is laughable. I am not sure if it’s a legal argument.
Thank you for proving my point.

Also, good luck with your claim.
Thanks I have already got a reply. Looks like I am off to CEDR.
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Old May 11, 2022, 5:00 am
  #30  
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I wonder why BA cannot get more staff though ? Could it be because they have a reputation as a bad employer who pays poor salaries and doesn't, really, look after their staff ?

Wasn't there a thread here not so long ago about them offering a £1000 signing bonus to staff with existing security clearance, and wasn't the view there one of "no chance" ?

The reason BA cannot attract staff is nothing to do with COVID. It is everything to do with the fact they are a poor employer, paying poor salaries. Those chickens have well and truly come home to roost.
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