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BA15 LHR -SIN 5th May left with empty water tanks

BA15 LHR -SIN 5th May left with empty water tanks

Old May 7, 2022, 2:06 pm
  #76  
 
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The tone of discussion in this thread needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

I haven’t read anyone trying to excuse the lack of water on the flight. Clearly, if it needs stating directly, this was v poor and unacceptable.

What we don’t have (if I recall the full thread correctly) is a concrete reason for the lack of water. We would need to know this before speculating if there is any read-across to other checks, procedures etc.
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Old May 7, 2022, 2:12 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
This is a check that the IFM must do before every departure, it should also be check by the TRM.
For clarity, what exactly is checked ? Is it a quantity, gauge or level, or is a binary indicator that just says “full” ?

Secondly, what happens when there is residual water in the tanks from the previous flight ? Does someone then have to judge it’s “enough” for the next flight ?
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Old May 7, 2022, 2:18 pm
  #78  
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It depends on the aircraft type but it’s a gauge or display which shows the amount of water in the tank.
The amount of water required depends on the length of flight or if water cannot be uplifted down route.
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Old May 7, 2022, 2:23 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
I think not necessarily that lack of water per se, but if the water was overlooked, today, is it going to be fuel tomorrow? It shows a lack of attention to detail and procedure, and sooner or later that sloppiness won't end well.
without going to much into detail, which I can't, but the fuel quantity is more or less constantly shown on the monitors in the cockpit. to read back the fuel quantity loaded (and compare that figure to the planned fuel loaded) is a part of at least one pre departure checklist. (water AFAIK) not.
IIRC also the MCDU warns you if the fuel loaded isn't enough for the route entered. but pilots may provide a deeper insight here...
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Old May 7, 2022, 2:37 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
The water. Nobody checked to see the water was filled? Isn't that the point of the thread?
There is not enough stated information for us to tell whether :

1) nobody checked
or
2) it was checked and they knew how much was on board, and a decision was made to depart anyway, taking into account a whole load of other factors that also are not known to us.
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Old May 7, 2022, 2:48 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by Nephoi
without going to much into detail, which I can't, but the fuel quantity is more or less constantly shown on the monitors in the cockpit. to read back the fuel quantity loaded (and compare that figure to the planned fuel loaded) is a part of at least one pre departure checklist. (water AFAIK) not.
IIRC also the MCDU warns you if the fuel loaded isn't enough for the route entered. but pilots may provide a deeper insight here...
Wasn't fuel load a factor in the concorde crash?.....and known in the cockpit
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Old May 7, 2022, 3:01 pm
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by Lioneye
Wasn't fuel load a factor in the concorde crash?.....and known in the cockpit
Not fuel load per se. A full fuel tank was impacted by rubber from the wheels. The resultant shockwave within the liquid, without any free space within the tank, caused a rupture in the tank wall. Leaking fuel was then ignited by hot engine components within the wing.

Link to the BEA accident report: https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...-sc000725a.pdf
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Old May 7, 2022, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by GrannyWeatherwax
A load of strawman arguments. Nobody said it was 'near death' or 'life threatening'. Nobody except YOU that is.

I don't really care about the explanations either. It's disgusting and that's the end of the matter.
I’m struggling to see how these are straw man arguments, the person AFAIK actually flies the thing so it’s reasonable to assume he knows what he’s talking about.

You might not care about the explanations, but they are very reasonable explanations that serve as a good insight into how things work and how the situation might have developed. I found them very interesting.

Yes it’s sub optimal, but not exactly a disaster. Still plenty of bottled water to drink, the toilets will still work and plenty of chemical stuff to wash hands with.

No big deal in the end.
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Old May 7, 2022, 3:04 pm
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Originally Posted by Lioneye
Wasn't fuel load a factor in the concorde crash?.....and known in the cockpit
The tanks were full and the plane was overweight. When the piece of tire hit the full tanks there was no place for the fuel to go and the tanks ruptured and ignited.
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Old May 7, 2022, 3:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Nephoi
without going to much into detail, which I can't, but the fuel quantity is more or less constantly shown on the monitors in the cockpit.
In the case of the Gimli Glider (Air Canada143), the computer simply displayed the amount entered. There was no correlation to the actual fuel level in the tanks. A metric conversion error led them to running out of fuel halfway to their destination.
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Old May 7, 2022, 3:50 pm
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
In the case of the Gimli Glider (Air Canada143), the computer simply displayed the amount entered. There was no correlation to the actual fuel level in the tanks. A metric conversion error led them to running out of fuel halfway to their destination.
But IIRc the FQIS (fuel quantity information system) was broken/faulty too. And this issue was known before flight.
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Old May 7, 2022, 5:22 pm
  #87  
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Originally Posted by flyingmonkie
Thirdly (and the biggest learning)... I'm astounded by how little water is needed on an A380 for a 12 hour flight ...
It was a 789.
Originally Posted by Jagboi
I think not necessarily that lack of water per se, but if the water was overlooked, today, is it going to be fuel tomorrow? It shows a lack of attention to detail and procedure, and sooner or later that sloppiness won't end well.
Fuel is more important than potable water.

Not having potable water in the tanks is yucky.

Not having fuel in the tanks is a safety-of-flight issue.

Again, the pilots here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I rather suspect that the detail of the procedures for fuel are commensurate to its importance.
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Old May 7, 2022, 7:16 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by krispy84
The tone of discussion in this thread needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

I haven’t read anyone trying to excuse the lack of water on the flight. Clearly, if it needs stating directly, this was v poor and unacceptable.

What we don’t have (if I recall the full thread correctly) is a concrete reason for the lack of water. We would need to know this before speculating if there is any read-across to other checks, procedures etc.
Indeed.
I'd be interested to know when the lack of water was discovered...on the ground or in the air? If on the ground and given the choice I would have flown instead of being offloaded. The tea and coffee is usually poor anyway and as a hiker and biker I can go for days without washing.

Last edited by HIDDY; May 7, 2022 at 8:12 pm
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Old May 7, 2022, 11:41 pm
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
It was a 789.
Apologies, confusing my 15/16s with my 11/12s.

It's still surprisingly little but less so!
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Old May 7, 2022, 11:51 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
And if you really want a genuinely toe-curling example of (many) things that should have been checked, but weren't, before the aircraft got airborne, try the ATSB's website for the recent report on 9M-MTK at BNE. If you don't want to be scared, don't read it.
I hadn’t heard of this, but upon reading it I personally found it gave reassurance that procedures and systems are in place should something be forgotten.

The one that worries me is the Emirates 777 from just before Christmas…I’ve heard several quite shocking things from my FC friends, but the report will make some genuinely worrying reading, I suspect, because it will likely highlight the weakest part of any aircraft safety system: the humans!
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