hungry

Hi All

Just wondered if there was a bit of advice anyone could offer. Some may know we recently had our Honeymoon trip LHR-LAS via DFW (on the outbound) with BA Holidays. Flight and Hotel. First Class.

On the outbound flight from LHR-DFW everything was fine. It was all obviously approved/booked connections. But the situation in DFW upon arrival at the airport was absolute chaos. There was no way of making that connection. Over an hour queueing to get through immigration (closer to two).

Eventually we were rebooked onto the next (and final of the day) flight from DFW-LAS but there was only space in Economy and we had paid for First.

On the plus side- they credited BOTH flights from DFW-LAS (one First and the Economy one) so we got a few extra TPs and Avios.

But on the minus- obviously we had paid for First Class but had to go in Economy, through (IMO) no fault of our own. They shouldn't offer these valid itineraries if there is literally no chance of getting through immigration in time to make the flight.

Is it worth pursuing any compensation/part-refund for the involuntary downgrade on the DFW-LAS flight from First to Economy on the basis that it wasn't our fault and we did everything in our power to make the flight?

Obviously the downside is that if BA look into it, they may correct the TP/AVIOS awarded.

Any advice from you fine people gratefully received

Many Thanks.

1Aturnleft

Out of interest how long was the DFW layover in question?

DFW was always notoriously bad for immigration prior to covid. I can only imagine the carnage now that travel has ramped up again and all the associated checks in place.... keeping in mind this isnt BA's fault either and that official checks and processes (Immigration) will always trump anything being completely outside the airlines control.

I dont think official minimum connection times have been amended to take any of this into consideration (these are set by IATA and not BA incidentally).

If you opted for a connection close to the minimum, I would suggest you were potentially courting for trouble. However it doesn't really excuse the fact it was a completely 'legal' connection.

I would say it probably comes down to just chalking it down to experience. If it were me I'd probably still make my complaint to Customer Services via YouFirst with the expectation I'm probably going to be thrown either an ex-gratia amout of Avios or a future BA travel credit and take it as a bonus if I get anything then draw a line and move on. As far as UK261 goes, your situation falls out of the scope of compensation as the AA connection isn't operated by a UK/EU carrier.

DFW-LAS service isnt really anything special so youve not really missed out on much other than a few drinks in glassware and a wider seat for a few of hours.

jerry a. laska

I agree with 1Aturnleft, this really comes down to providing you with more travel experience. As your delay and subsequent accomodation in a lower cabin was due to immigration, you are not entitles to any statutory compensation and I believe any customer service gesture you are provided by BA will be minimal at best (I don't believe that AA will provide anything).

1Aturnleft

Correct, AA would have provided nada.... any misconnect due to inbound delay, weather etc... is handled in the same way. It's also the downside of operating fixed premium cabins unlike Club Europe that can be converted out according to demand.... so all those naysayers slating Club Europe or Euro Business Class typically don't think about this situation. Consider yourself lucky they were able to accommodate you on the same day as AA wouldn't have provided you with accommodation in DFW in this situation either. Of course as a well traveled BA passenger and Flyer Talker you'd have just booked your own and sent BA the bill for reimbursement afterwards. I imagine that most passengers in that situation wouldn't have had that power of knowledge so the potential for those expenses to quickly rack up doesn't really bare thinking about.

Also keep in mind AA domestic First Class (with the exception of 3 class transcons) is in name only. Youre booked into J/C/D/R/I fare buckets so effectively you're in Business from a ticketing/fare perspective for that particular leg.
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TTmex

I got a smallish sum back for a downgrade on an AA itin with a similar immigration problem. AA did get us onto the gate 30 mins late due to their ground handlers not being ready, but the main delay was at Miami immigration. The refund was automatic but was an AA ticket. Feel free to ask BA for something but you may be giving yourself unneeded stress and may be using a lot of time to get not much, especially as BA will claim (rightly) it was not their fault. Honestly you didn't miss much of an experience. US domestic First is pony and as mentioned above, all you missed was a couple of drinks and a light meal. Transcon might be a different case, i.e. JFK to LAX, but most domestic routes are crap. As long as you got the TPs and Avios, might be worth just sucking it up on this occasion.

audio-nut

IATA does not set MCTs, they are set by the carrier.

LCY8737

I quite like domestic F as a product. Seats are comfy for a few hours (definitely better than the European style business seating). The catering is consistently underwhelming, but it's not like the ready meals one gets on BA are a fine dining experience.

AJA_

I think you have already been given a customer service gesture by BA as you say

"On the plus side- they credited BOTH flights from DFW-LAS (one First and the Economy one) so we got a few extra TPs and Avios"

I would keep quiet. If you complain BA are within their rights to reverse out the TP and Avios for one of the duplicate flights you've been credited with.

I think AA did well to reaccomodate you and get you to your destination the same day.

corporate-wage-slave

There may be an argument about downgrade recovery here, even though it wasn't apparently the airlines fault. This is clearer with a redemption booking, which this case was not, since you can easily repay the difference between main cabin and First. Where BA was definitely in the wrong here, typically a late arrival into Texas, then EC261 is distance related, so DFW-LAS in the context of return mileage - here about 10% - so the refund under EC261 wouldn't be a lot, maybe 5% of your spend. So when it gets to sums below £100 or so then I would often suggest an Avios recompense rather than EC261 as easier for all concerned. Here it would seem that has accidentally happened already. It should also be pointed out that under the US system, it's relatively easy for paid First to end up downgraded with late arrivals, due to the way upgrades are processed, so it's far more common as a feature of this sort of event than it would be in Europe, where normally you would expect to end up late, but in the cabin of booking.

DFW usually isn't too bad as an entry point, but LHR and MAN aren't the only airports under strain at the moment. I'm guessing this was not a midweek arrival.

TTmex

Wasn't comparing the two, but yes the seat is nicer for the hop between DFW and Vegas. Just merely pointing out to op that they didn't miss a true first class experience.

Jaimito Cartero

Choosing flights too close after arrival is a well known hazard. I generally leave a 3 hour connection for an Intl-US ticket with a further connection.

Generally you can make sure they give you your F flights but might have to wait a day or two for the next available F seat. I’d leave it alone, personally.

Schultzois

Such a short connection is certainly risky, and many will know it. It is not impossible for all passengers, however, such as an American with Global Entry.
It would be nice if BA could have had someone meeting connecting passengers in at lease First at the gate to speed them through, but that’s clearly fantasy land now.

endoman

Immigration wasn't the issue for us at DFW, that was 10 minutes, but getting back through security with no priority after arriving in first, a gate change meaning the train thing, and a bit of running meant we just made our 2 1/2 hr connection. Domestic first is certainly nothing special, but more room than economy.

We are awaiting Global entry and TSA pre check approval to hopefully mitigate against some of this in the future.

ezefllying

As another poster mentioned, a 90-minute international-to-domestic connection within the U.S. can be very doable (depending on airport) for a U.S. citizen, particularly one with Global Entry. I recently returned from Latin America to IAH, deplaned at 5 AM (yes, early, but not there was still a fast-forming queue), and was through immigration, TSA, and at the lounge a couple of minutes before it opened at 5:30. And that's at Houston, where it's easily a quarter-mile hike (perhaps more like 1/3) from some gates to immigration.

It's even faster flying United at IAD. I can do disembarkation to connecting gate in under ten minutes.

The problem, of course, is the endlessly long immigration lines for foreign visitors. No one will fix it because CBP doesn't want to be rushed the optics of appearing to prioritize foreigners would put certain cynical politicians into a feeding frenzy. Having fumed at 45-minute lines to enter Argentina, I'm sympathetic.

Lomapaseo

So yes go after the cause and request compensation if it's a business. It's hard to see at this time that an airline caused this. Never the less since the business couldn't deliver what you paid for, then they at least need to give you back some money.

Same thing happened to me once but it was not on my honeymoon.

Hope the honeymoon went well after that