Schultzois

Hmm… interesting. How do they work it? Do the flights depart from areas which would require immigration in order to get out of? It makes sense, I’ve just never seen it. When I looked on MIA airport web site all I could find said passengers would need to enter the US, but if ticketed through on international to international connections, wouldn’t need to collect bags.

May I ask which airline(s) you were travelling when you did this in DFW?

LondonElite

There is an emigration check at US airports. Airlines provide that information. Otherwise every ESTA or visa holder would show up as having overstayed their visit.

Schultzois

Is it done only by the airline? If so then I feel that’s a bit different from what I’m talking about, by which someone in transit for instance could just walk into the US if there wasn’t a separate border control.
In 47 years going and coming from/to the US as a US citizen, I never remember any exit formality (and certainly never an exit stamp), only entry formalities.

beachmouse

Exit control happens behind the scenes- after a flight leaves US airspace, the airline sends an electronic passenger manifest including passport info to CBP in lieu of individual exit processing.

The US has typically been reluctant to allow I to I passengers to not enter the country because they want a common and consistent policy across all airports and it would cost a lot of money to build I to I comfort zones (food, restrooms etc) in all International airports with scheduled service, sone of which may see fewer than 10 I to I passengers a week.

And then you have IRROPS where you get, say, GRR used as a diversion point for ORD.It’s International services are limited to general aviation- basically 1-2 employees for folks who have a fishing cabin in Canada or such but no scheduled international flights these days. They can handle an international diversion, if slowly, but then you have the problem of people not allowed into the country not allowed off the plane and doing what with them until the plane goes onward to Chicago. (The airlines definitely wouldn’t want to have to leave crew on the flight overnight for 2-3 transit passengers when everyone can just go to a hotel)

Schultzois

The I to I transit question generally I understand that it requires an infrastructure difference to handle on scale.

The diversion question, less so. When the first segment of my NCE-LHR-PHL diverted to BOH, we along with about four other planes all had to sit onboard several hours until eventually the airport called in immigration teams to let us into UK whether we were in transit to another country or not… it’s an unusual situation, but certainly happens and needs to be planned into the logistics of any carrier’s and airport’s operations.

I don’t think any of the planes in BOH continued to their respective London airports with any passengers, but I’m not sure if any of them included transit passengers without normal entry rights to UK.

DoctorCopper

The routing was CUN-DFW-SCL, in Nov-18, using AA for both the CUN-DFW and DFW-SCL sectors. I was very surprised, but pleased, to be able to do an airside transit - baggage was through checked at CUN to SCL. There was signage at DFW indicating the route that international transfer passengers should use.

Doc Copper

The _Banking_Scot

Hi

I had not heard of I to I connections bypassing immigration at dfw recently ( years ago prior to 9/11 there were special transfer arrangements at lax for af tahiti and Korean Air flights iirc( so thanks for that)

Regards

Tbs

denhaagflyer

Back in the 1990s I experienced several ad-hoc international-to-international transfers at IAD, coming from FRA on connection to SJO (all on UA). It consisted basically of an UA employee picking up all SJO-bound pax at the door of the incoming flight and leading them behind departure area to SJO flight But I guess back then, things were more generally handled more informally than today. Also, no ESTA back then.

KeaneJohn

They would still need to pass immigration. As has been mentioned you have an ITI baggage facility where your checked bags will be transferred without you physically needing to collect. At DFW there is not a departure gate that you can’t walk back out to the street from without checks hence all passengers need to clear immigration.

Not sure when it was stopped but my parents were flying mid 90s to Montego Bay on a Thompson/TUI 767 which has a refuelling stop in Sanford, FL They were allowed to enter the terminal building into what can only be described as a prison reception with vending machines.and toilets.

Schultzois

Would these have been only for services sold as “direct” (through flight with stop en route but same flight number).
I could see those potentially being handled separately.

What I’d really be interested to know is if ANY of the US airports would take something like a GRU-MIA-PLS passenger who doesn’t intend to enter the US and wouldn’t be able to without a visa, or LHR-DFW-EZE under same conditions. In either case there may or may not be a change of carrier, depending on ticket. I’ve avoided all such bookings for those who don’t have US citizenship or visas, but would really like to include some of these routings when I’m moving friends around the world who have no reason at the moment to have a visa, but do travel routes that are now hard to fly without landing in the US.

I’d still be concerned about an IRROPS situation where they might then get stuck at the airport… but as I mentioned earlier, there are various places (especially now with COVID restrictions) where that can happen.

LondonElite

In case someone is interested, you can check your I-94 (ie ESTA) travel history here:

https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/history-search

wrp96

To clear up some questions, yes some US airports have ITI, which transfers your bags on an international to international transfer without you having to retrieve them. You still have to go through immigration and reclear security, so you must be admissible to the US. So no you wouldn't be able to fly GRU-MIA-PLS without being admissible to the US.

Globaliser

I think that another LAX example was NZ1/NZ2 (and past flight numbers associated with that service).

I have a distinct recollection of using the LAX sin bin but I have never taken a direct flight using LAX as an intermediate transit stop. So I'm pretty sure that it must have been an interline connection BA --> QF back in the late 1980s, as part of a LHR-LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD routing.The risk of a diversion to an airport without appropriate immigration facilities is everywhere. If an aircraft has to LAND ASAP, it will simply do that regardless of whether the airfield in question has immigration or ITI facilities. Indeed, it often happens to an aircraft that only ever intended to overfly the country in question, so the passengers never even thought they might have to touch that country. So there's nothing unique about the US in this respect, and nothing new injected by Covid. I have heard it said that there were some bad old days when there were no diversion airfields east of Berlin, so it was "SVO or bust". But I don't think that applies any more. In an emergency, everyone will manage the situation. Whatever the policy considerations behind the US not implementing ITI facilities at some airports, I can't think that the possibility of IRROPS can be high on the list.

Globaliser

This will often show how imperfect the system is. There's one trip of mine on which I've been recorded as arriving once but departing three times on three different dates and places. (I know why it happened, but it certainly looks odd on the list.)

Schultzois

My commentary with regards to IRROPS (not to be confused with diversions, which came up earlier in the conversation) was that there are indeed with COVID more airports where you can make a transit without any problem, but entry restrictions vary so much.

I booked a friend on a long connection via IST who only months before would have been entitled to a free hotel and transfers with TK. And had entered Turkey various times with no advance visa requirement, but who because of COVID restrictions more recently was restricted to the the transit area of the airport.

If you are planning on it, then okay, but still not ideal (we booked him into the IST Yotel in one direction, and he ate in the very nice and very much functioning TK lounge in the other direction). But let’s say his connection went IRROPS and then he needed to wait another day… there’s only so much you can do with 36 hours in lounges or airside hotels! Which is why future trips were booked via cities where, even with a missed connection, one would at least be able to get out of the airport (which, again, prior to COVID was pretty much everywhere except the US).

We both also deliberately avoided UK - again because of COVID restrictions other countries have, not because of visa issues - in the same month because entry requirements both to France and Brasil would have mandated quarantine if you had been in UK. If you’re in transit, no worries usually, but again, if you have IRROPS, then suddenly you’ve been in the red zone and either can’t enter (in my case) or could only enter with quarantine (in my friend’s case).

So getting stuck somewhere along the way in a large part of the world has most definitely changed with COVID.