steview111

Not sure why there is confusion. The legislation permits landside and airside connections and doesn’t stipulate that overnight connections aren’t permitted. In this case, the landside connection would’ve been T5 arrivals to T5 departures, unless they were permitted to stay airside.

The only thing that could be debated is whether kingcole974 should’ve been allowed to stay in a hotel or whether they should’ve gone straight to Gatwick and spent the night in Costa coffee. But that just shows how daft the rules are.

KARFA

We have been through this before so I am somewhat cautious of relitigating it, but you are somewhat oversimplifying what the the legislation states. The additional restrictions for catergory 3 arrivals apply unless you fall within an exemption, and transit is one of them. Transit is defined in Schedule 7 as including airside transit, and landside where the person:

If you are not exempted then the requirements of Schedule 11 apply - you can't argue that it doesn't stipulate overnight connections aren't permitted as quite simply that is not how it is written, there is no list of exclusions from what is not permitted.

Now I would argue that an overnight connection where you head to your own hotel doesn't fall within either of those. However, we do know that it has been the case with regard to day 2 tests which has an exemption for transit as well, border force have applied a more relaxed policy of allowing you not to have a day 2 booking if doing an overnight connection. I am not so convinced that the same relaxed attitude would apply for red list arrivals and I certainly would advise anyone to rebook if possible to avoid an overnight if coming from a red list.

There is a strong possibility you would have to go to enforced hotel quarantine, and whilst you may be able to leave next day if leaving the country I do not think there is a mechanism to pay anything other than the full 10 day price.

steview111

It’s there in black and white. Both of the above cases were entering the U.K. “for the sole purpose of continuing a journey to a country or territory outside the common travel area”. The only thing up for debate is whether they would have to “remain within their port of entry until their departure from England” and whether the “port of entry” extends to an airport hotel.

If the legislation was followed as it is written, there is no way they would’ve ended up in hotel quarantine. They just might have had to stay in the terminal overnight.

corporate-wage-slave

And T5 closes at night, apart from a landside area by Costa cofee in arrivals, with deliberately uncomfortable conditions to dissuade the homeless. It's just a case of what we would advise someone to do if caught out by the shifting sands of requirements and airline schedules. I would still advocate someone leaves the UK overnight, to anywhere in Europe that would accept that Red List visitor without quarantine, and then return to London the next day to complete the connection. That is the safest thing to advise, particularly if and when managed isolation hotels become available again (people are being shipped off to Milton Keynes at the moment).

KARFA

Well it is not up for debate that they need to remain within their port of entry if doing (i) because that is exactly what is says.

On your second point you have a very interesting definition of "remains within their port of entry" if you think it extends to my room in the Premier Inn on Bath Road, or indeed anywhere else in London where someone could conceivably stay on an overnight connection.

As I said, this is not as black and white as you are painting it and some caution is required here.

Richmond_Surrey

So it's better for someone to take 2 flights with other people on board, rather then go to airport hotel where mixing with other people is minimal?

corporate-wage-slave

Now then, if we are trying to induce some pragmatism into the process, let's say I wouldn't have started from here. That apart, it remains the case that direct flights are a better idea in the pandemic era, accepting that South Africa and Nigeria have very limited access to the aviation network.

KARFA

I think the advice relates to avoiding any problems with red list arrivals and hotels rather than lowering your risk of catching covid as such

steview111

I think you need to re-read my post, I haven’t defined anything. The point of debate is whether they can stay in a hotel for the night or not. What isn’t up for debate is whether they’d be shipped off to a quarantine hotel and forced to pay £2200. They wouldn’t, because they fall under the definition of “enters the United Kingdom for the sole purpose of continuing a journey to a country or territory outside the common travel area”. That’s the legislation. In black and white.


Clearly in the other case defined above by kingcole974, common sense prevailed and they were able to stay in a hotel overnight instead of spending the night at Costa in Gatwick arrivals. Whether that would happen in all cases is where the debate lies, not whether they’d be forced into a quarantine hotel.

KARFA

It is an exemption, and if you fall within it you are not subject to the additional requirements for category 3 arrivals. You are also missing the word "and" after the bit you quoted.

To fall within the exemption you must be entering "..the United Kingdom for the sole purpose of continuing a journey to a country or territory outside the common travel area" and be doing either (i) or (ii). Simply entering the UK for the sole purpose of continuing is not sufficient, there is clearly an "and" after that. If you are not doing (i) or (ii) you are not with the exemption and you are subject to the requirements of category 3 arrivals.

Staying overnight in a hotel of your choosing is not "remaining within your port of entry" by any definition so you are not in (i) or (ii) so you are not doing either and you are not meeting the requirements of the exemption.

Now, UKBF may be pragmatic and allow it as they did to the OP, but I wouldn't rely on it.

steview111

How many times do I need to say that I am not suggesting that staying in a hotel of their choosing is within the rules? Do you actually read what I write? I’m not saying that staying at a hotel of the traveller’s choosing is anything other than discretionary and is not part of the legislation.

However, you suggesting that people entering the U.K. in the evening with a connecting flight the next morning will be forced to pay £2200 and go into a quarantine hotel is incorrect. Plain and simple. They may be asked to remain in the airport terminal (i) or go straight to their port of exit (ii), but they will NOT be forced into a quarantine hotel.

KeaneJohn

Things are changing. Yesterday’s arrivals were kept on coaches for 10-12 hours until a quarantine hotel was found for them.

I struggle to see how someone would be able to book a throwaway ticket to Paris for the day after their arrival from a red country, head to the Premier Inn, then poodle off home and don’t make their connecting flight. Brings a new meaning to dropping the last leg.

If people got wind of this it would negate quarantine.

KARFA

I think the suggestion is to go to Paris, not merely book a throwaway ticket. You are allowed to transit airside even as a red arrival.

Richmond_Surrey

People do this in other countries to avoid quarantine. They buy cheap tickets and never leave the country. And this info is shared on many forums and FB.