BA2553 a dozen passengers without seats whilst taxiing
Nov 1, 2021, 8:32 am
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
I have some sympathy with this, however given the what is at stake, and the worst case consequences of a safety lapse in aviation, there is in my mind an overarching argument that says flight safety is so paramount (we are always told by BA Captains that our safety is paramount) that any safety protocol must be followed to the letter, otherwise you end up on a slippery slope, and it's in that context that lives may ultimately be on the line. Let's face it, if you took any other approach, you would end up with a lot more things being allowed.
Nov 1, 2021, 1:42 pm
#107
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ireland
Programs: BA: GOLD, MARRIOTT: TITANIUM, IHG: PLAT, HILTON: GOLD
Posts: 491
A Royal Jordanian flight I was on took off from the runway while the safety video was still playing, somewhere around the life vests section. I asked the crew to ask the captain why this happened and they said they were given an earlier departure slot. When I asked if this was considered okay they said it had already played once in the local language and this was the second play (in English) so it was fine. 😐
Nov 1, 2021, 3:55 pm
#108
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
There is an ageist axiom, here on Flyertalk, that if something bad happens on a flight it's got to be due to lack of experience and thusly because of the "young 'uns" (aka those formerly called 'Mixed Fleet'). Leaving aside that not everyone who (was) from MF or a new entrant isn't 18 year old - I know plenty of ex Met officers who are now flying, for instance) we tend to leave out what, in my experience, is the most accident-prone category of people: those who have done this kind of job for 20+ years and who are suddenly faced with a different way of working.
Nonetheless, back to the OP, it is shocking if indeed true. I agree with another comment that reporting it to BA is appropriate and allowing them a chance for reflection/correction/investigation after which if one felt it wasn't being taken seriously enough, or another similar experience is seen, then at that point CAA would be appropriate. Of course, nothing wrong with directly reporting it to the CAA, but working in another professional field with a regulatory body, I can say for sure it would be much better if it were to be reported internally first, such potentially serious breaches are usually dealt with quicker internally, in fact it can be a lot more long drawn out and painful for all parties if the CAA gets involved first hand!
Nov 2, 2021, 7:52 am
#109
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Saladman - I'm sure I will be flamed for this but I couldn't agree more. Frankly I see this every other day on the Tube with X people standing up but not holding on. There is some unexpected breaking between stations because of a red signal or whatever, and all with predictable results, mostly comical. But nothing fatal. And I don't see anyone arguing that standing on the Tube should be banned or TFL should be held to account in some way for the conduct of their passengers. As regards aviation I would be much more worried about Engine, Avionics, Pilot Error, etc, which are the source of nearly all fatalities. Taxiing accidents less so. In all of the major sources of risk BA do a good job as evidenced by their generally good record. I'm sorry but this whole debate seems to be symptomatic of a world in which no one wants to take or accept the slightest bit of risk at the expense of personal freedom and personal agency. And secondly (and I think this Social Media driven) there seems to be a growing category of people desperate to call out other people for their perceived failings when perhaps they should start by looking closer to home. Are they are perfect in everything they do? Never have a bad day? Then they are super human indeed....
Buses and trains don't need seatbelts either, nor does it matter too much if they set off with body panels missing. Aircraft are a different beast and the rules must reflect that.
Nov 2, 2021, 9:06 am
#110
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/GfL), LH FTL, SPG Plat
Posts: 52
Aircraft brakes are roughly 30 times more powerful than the air brakes on buses and trains.
Buses and trains don't need seatbelts either, nor does it matter too much if they set off with body panels missing. Aircraft are a different beast and the rules must reflect that.
Buses and trains don't need seatbelts either, nor does it matter too much if they set off with body panels missing. Aircraft are a different beast and the rules must reflect that.
As for body panels missing. Again what has that got to do with it? Are you implying because of a mild, rare incident on departure the whole company is rotten to the core including the maintenance department? That is quite a stretch
Let’s please get some perspective. This incident is portrayed as if the aircraft was at V1 when all this was happening…
Nov 2, 2021, 9:18 am
#111
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
Aircraft brakes are roughly 30 times more powerful than the air brakes on buses and trains.
Buses and trains don't need seatbelts either, nor does it matter too much if they set off with body panels missing. Aircraft are a different beast and the rules must reflect that.
Buses and trains don't need seatbelts either, nor does it matter too much if they set off with body panels missing. Aircraft are a different beast and the rules must reflect that.
No-one is denying that the rules were broken and it needs to be addressed. But this rubbish about it being being 'life threatening' is just sensationalism.
It clearly can't be that dangerous to be standing up whilst taxying since the cabin crew are wandering around, doing safety demos, checking seatbelts and suchlike. And they don't have an invincibility cloak or any superpowers (my wife might disagree with me!)
Nov 2, 2021, 9:20 am
#112
Moderator, Emirates
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Where My Heart Is
Programs: BAEC Silver, FB Platinum, KQ Asante Gold, Shebamiles Blue, Emirates Blue
Posts: 3,385
Yes. Aircraft have much more powerful brakes so they can deal with deceleration from, say, V1. What has that got to do with taxiing at a few mph. You have to compare apples with apples. A Ferrari may have Carbon Ceramic Brakes fitted as opposed to a Lada. Doesn’t really matter if they are both travelling at 3mph.
As for body panels missing. Again what has that got to do with it? Are you implying because of a mild, rare incident on departure the whole company is rotten to the core including the maintenance department? That is quite a stretch
Let’s please get some perspective. This incident is portrayed as if the aircraft was at V1 when all this was happening…
As for body panels missing. Again what has that got to do with it? Are you implying because of a mild, rare incident on departure the whole company is rotten to the core including the maintenance department? That is quite a stretch
Let’s please get some perspective. This incident is portrayed as if the aircraft was at V1 when all this was happening…
Nov 2, 2021, 9:20 am
#113
Join Date: Aug 2016
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 29
I was returning from Santorini last month and cabin crew were letting people switch to whatever seats they fancied before boarding had completed - there were still coaches coming to the plane from the terminal. Caused all kinds of chaos -- though people had finally sat down by the time we pushed back in this case. Maybe it's a Greek island thing. Or maybe it was the same crew!
Nov 2, 2021, 9:45 am
#115
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 460
I was returning from Santorini last month and cabin crew were letting people switch to whatever seats they fancied before boarding had completed - there were still coaches coming to the plane from the terminal. Caused all kinds of chaos -- though people had finally sat down by the time we pushed back in this case. Maybe it's a Greek island thing. Or maybe it was the same crew!
Not as serious as the OP’s experience which I still maintain was dangerous. Yes, cabin crew are up and about during the taxi but they are trained, making final checks and carrying out the safety briefing. It’s not entirely risk free but is certainly made riskier with passengers also milling about and stowing carry ons during the taxi.
I’m of the “thin end of the wedge” view on this. Don’t let it go because it was only a little bit dangerous. What next? I still like BA a lot for its safety record and attitude to safety exhibited by all on board staff. I don’t want to see that eroding at all.
Last edited by Ladyfliestheredwhiteandblues; Nov 2, 2021 at 11:04 am Reason: Typo
Nov 2, 2021, 10:21 am
#116
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Sure but when they are taxying at 20mph (or whatever) then it's somewhat academic how good the brakes are.
No-one is denying that the rules were broken and it needs to be addressed. But this rubbish about it being being 'life threatening' is just sensationalism.
It clearly can't be that dangerous to be standing up whilst taxying since the cabin crew are wandering around, doing safety demos, checking seatbelts and suchlike. And they don't have an invincibility cloak or any superpowers (my wife might disagree with me!)
No-one is denying that the rules were broken and it needs to be addressed. But this rubbish about it being being 'life threatening' is just sensationalism.
It clearly can't be that dangerous to be standing up whilst taxying since the cabin crew are wandering around, doing safety demos, checking seatbelts and suchlike. And they don't have an invincibility cloak or any superpowers (my wife might disagree with me!)
Nov 2, 2021, 2:07 pm
#117
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 237
I find the title of this thread confusing. The passengers had seats but weren't sitting in them. I thought the thread was going to be about more passengers than seats, as happened a few years ago on PIA.
A better heading would be: "BA2553 a dozen passengers not sitting whilst taxiing."
A better heading would be: "BA2553 a dozen passengers not sitting whilst taxiing."
Nov 3, 2021, 3:24 pm
#118
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
I'm interested to know what the OP ultimately decided to do? Hopefully this incident hasn't just been left to the mercy of "Trial by FlyerTalk" and OP has actually followed through with either a complaint to BA and/or CAA? Apologise if they have already and I missed the post...If OP did already, what the response has been?
Nov 3, 2021, 6:57 pm
#119
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,317
Nov 28, 2021, 5:41 am
#120
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 575
We had a total nob on BA767 from OSL yesterday who decided to get up and started taking out luggage from the overhead locker before the plane reached the end of the runway and had to be told multiple times by the crew, passengers around him, and even over the speaker system. To the point, one crew member had to get up run down the aisle tell in a firm but fair manner to sit down and shut the locker.