Oct 2, 2021, 12:05 pm
Last edit by: BAeuro
Gatwick Short-Haul Routes S22
New permanent LHR services (exLGW)
Algiers – Terminal 3
Bari – Terminal 3
Catania – Terminal 5
Dubrovnik – Terminal 5
Funchal – Terminal 5
Heraklion – Terminal 5
Jersey – Terminal 5
Kos - Terminal 5
Lanzarote - Terminal 5 (Apr/May only)
Malta - Terminal 5 (Apr-Jun only)
Naples – Terminal 3
Paphos - Terminal 5
Porto - Terminal 3
Seville – Terminal 5 (Apr/May only)
Thessaloniki - Terminal 5
Tirana – Terminal 3
Remaining at LGW (On sale)
Bari
Catania
Dubrovnik
Heraklion
Kos
Lanzarote
Malta
Paphos
Seville
Thessaloniki
Amsterdam
Dalaman
Faro
Ibiza
Malaga
Marrakesh
Palma
Rhodes
Tenerife
Venice
Glasgow
Manchester
Alicante
Antalya
Bordeaux
Cagliari
Gran Canaria
Larnaca
Menorca
Nice
Turin
Verona
Milan Malpensa
Santorini
Athens
Berlin
Madrid
Remaining at LGW (Off sale)
Bilbao
Geneva
Genoa
Grenoble
Rome
Salzburg
Gatwick Short-Haul Routes W22
Moved to LHR
Algiers
Funchal
Jersey
Porto
Naples
Tirana
New permanent LHR services (exLGW)
Algiers – Terminal 3
Bari – Terminal 3
Catania – Terminal 5
Dubrovnik – Terminal 5
Funchal – Terminal 5
Heraklion – Terminal 5
Jersey – Terminal 5
Kos - Terminal 5
Lanzarote - Terminal 5 (Apr/May only)
Malta - Terminal 5 (Apr-Jun only)
Naples – Terminal 3
Paphos - Terminal 5
Porto - Terminal 3
Seville – Terminal 5 (Apr/May only)
Thessaloniki - Terminal 5
Tirana – Terminal 3
Remaining at LGW (On sale)
Bari
Catania
Dubrovnik
Heraklion
Kos
Lanzarote
Malta
Paphos
Seville
Thessaloniki
Amsterdam
Dalaman
Faro
Ibiza
Malaga
Marrakesh
Palma
Rhodes
Tenerife
Venice
Glasgow
Manchester
Alicante
Antalya
Bordeaux
Cagliari
Gran Canaria
Larnaca
Menorca
Nice
Turin
Verona
Milan Malpensa
Santorini
Athens
Berlin
Madrid
Remaining at LGW (Off sale)
Bilbao
Geneva
Genoa
Grenoble
Rome
Salzburg
Gatwick Short-Haul Routes W22
Moved to LHR
Algiers
Funchal
Jersey
Porto
Naples
Tirana
BA planning to launch ‘low-cost’ shorthaul subsidiary at Gatwick in 2022
Sep 17, 2021, 11:56 am
#241
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,167
In short, key protections that were pivotal to a BALPA recommendation for the deal were reneged on by BA. The ballot had been extended by a week to allow proper adjustments to be made, alas at what was considered to be the original zero hour BA refused to honour a previously negotiated pledge. Am I Surprised? No.
let’s see what the next week brings but I’m highly sceptical that any future ballot would bring a vote of acceptance given the events internally of the past 48 hours.
let’s see what the next week brings but I’m highly sceptical that any future ballot would bring a vote of acceptance given the events internally of the past 48 hours.
Sep 17, 2021, 11:56 am
#242
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: U.K.
Programs: BA Exec Club Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 277
Some last minute changes/revelations have meant the BALPA ballot has been pulled. Whether this means LGW SH is now a no go remains to be seen, no comment has been made by BA.
Sep 17, 2021, 1:28 pm
#243
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
No big surprise. It was a losing proposition from the start. If you have to screw over your workers to even have a minimal presence at LGW, then you are failing. Time to come up with a better plan or move on and leave the slots to a competitor.
Sep 17, 2021, 1:50 pm
#244
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,624
I doubt this will be the last we’ll hear of it /ballot attempts. BA wont have fan-fared all this proposal…
Was always a success long shot anyway.
Was always a success long shot anyway.
Sep 17, 2021, 1:59 pm
#245
Join Date: Apr 2012
Programs: BA Executive Club
Posts: 1,032
I’m still not convinced that BA will walk a away from 90 slot pairs at Gatwick. This amount they were using Summer 2019. Slots that it may need in the future. Also handing 6 million passengers to the competition? I think we have a way to go yet before things are settled.
Sep 17, 2021, 2:55 pm
#246
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
According to this article, BA was losing money on Gatwick shorthaul whilst paying flight crew only GBP18,300/year. That is already a poverty wage. How much lower can they go to make it work? LGW would be better off without them as would the employees who could make more doing something else.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
Sep 17, 2021, 3:04 pm
#247
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,890
According to this article, BA was losing money on Gatwick shorthaul whilst paying flight crew only GBP18,300/year. That is already a poverty wage. How much lower can they go to make it work? LGW would be better off without them as would the employees who could make more doing something else.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
Sep 17, 2021, 3:41 pm
#248
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 187
According to this article, BA was losing money on Gatwick shorthaul whilst paying flight crew only GBP18,300/year. That is already a poverty wage. How much lower can they go to make it work? LGW would be better off without them as would the employees who could make more doing something else.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...65N20Q20100624
But now, apparently, it isn’t/wasn’t
Sep 17, 2021, 3:48 pm
#249
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 55
The problem pre-COVID was that BA’s short haul operation was sub scale. EasyJet had much better network breath and depth. Reducing down to 17 frames (at a guess, 50% of pre-COVID levels) BA is magnifying the issue it had in the first place. Given Thomas Cook and Norwegian have exited the short haul market at LGW BA should have gone on the offensive with a view to bringing in the 737 MAX which would further reduce costs in the next 3 years.
Alas when in a crisis of this magnitude the default option is that the risk averse option is taken, unless you are Ryanair.
Alas when in a crisis of this magnitude the default option is that the risk averse option is taken, unless you are Ryanair.
Sep 17, 2021, 4:19 pm
#250
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
It certainly is when you job involves commuting to/from an airport. The CEO was making that in a little more than 2 days pre-COVID. Given the plan was to only staff 17 planes, is saving a few thousand pounds a year in staffing going to amount to a hill of beans compared to the total expenditures of the IAG Group? No. Time to end the charade and just free up the slots for another airline that will actually use them to fly somewhere.
Sep 17, 2021, 4:38 pm
#251
Join Date: Apr 2012
Programs: BA Executive Club
Posts: 1,032
Sfozrhfco. You seem a little anti BA and Gatwick. Actually £18000 basic for cabin crew is pretty average in U.K. They can make more with allowances and overtime.
Pre COVID BA had in total 40 plus aircraft based at Gatwick. It served 70 destinations. Not exactly small scale. It operated mainly a leisure focused point to point network. The deep network if you like was based at Heathrow. Of course EasyJet is bigger at LGW but has nothing at LHR.
That was about 32 SH and 15 long haul aircraft.
The problem pre-COVID was that BA’s short haul operation was sub scale. EasyJet had much better network breath and depth. Reducing down to 17 frames (at a guess, 50% of pre-COVID levels) BA is magnifying the issue it had in the first place. Given Thomas Cook and Norwegian have exited the short haul market at LGW BA should have gone on the offensive with a view to bringing in the 737 MAX which would further reduce costs in the next 3 years.
Alas when in a crisis of this magnitude the default option is that the risk averse option is taken, unless you are Ryanair.
Alas when in a crisis of this magnitude the default option is that the risk averse option is taken, unless you are Ryanair.
That was about 32 SH and 15 long haul aircraft.
Last edited by Prospero; Sep 25, 2021 at 3:01 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts
Sep 17, 2021, 5:09 pm
#252
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 55
Pre COVID BA had in total 40 plus aircraft based at Gatwick. It served 70 destinations. Not exactly small scale. It operated mainly a leisure focused point to point network. The deep network if you like was based at Heathrow. Of course EasyJet is bigger at LGW but has nothing at LHR.
Sep 17, 2021, 7:14 pm
#253
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, Babylon-on-Thames
Programs: BAEC Blue (back to Earth)
Posts: 1,500
Core problem is with LGW is LHR. Everything is seen through the lense of how LGW ops impact on LHR. Will it cannibalise a LHR route? Could the aircraft be better used out of LHR? easyJet are LGW focussed like a laser beam, for BA, it's always an afterthought.
Sep 17, 2021, 9:25 pm
#254
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK - Hampshire & London
Programs: Mucci de Guardian des Celliers des Grands Crus 1e Classé, plus BAEC.
Posts: 2,731
In short, key protections that were pivotal to a BALPA recommendation for the deal were reneged on by BA. The ballot had been extended by a week to allow proper adjustments to be made, alas at what was considered to be the original zero hour BA refused to honour a previously negotiated pledge. Am I Surprised? No.
let’s see what the next week brings but I’m highly sceptical that any future ballot would bring a vote of acceptance given the events internally of the past 48 hours.
let’s see what the next week brings but I’m highly sceptical that any future ballot would bring a vote of acceptance given the events internally of the past 48 hours.
According to BA, the plan was contingent on the unions accepting the new proposal. If it was a ‘No’ then BA would have to pull out of SH at LGW.
Some last minute changes/revelations have meant the BALPA ballot has been pulled. Whether this means LGW SH is now a no go remains to be seen, no comment has been made by BA.
Some last minute changes/revelations have meant the BALPA ballot has been pulled. Whether this means LGW SH is now a no go remains to be seen, no comment has been made by BA.
I think they do and they will.
Sep 17, 2021, 11:53 pm
#255
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,345
So will all flights booked for Gatwick next year be cancelled or moved to Heathrow?