CrazyJ82

I'm quite certain there will be an existing thread about this but I've managed to get lost in the search function between advice of various vintages and with Covid stuff and everything. So please redirect me as necessary:

I made a straight Avios redemption in First for a roundtrip back in June. Downgraded to CW on both legs due to change of aircraft, and have now flown the itinerary on the originally scheduled flights in the lower cabin. Having trouble determining what I'm due. I thought it was 75% of the Avios and 75% of the carrier-imposed fees and charges. Around 14 days ago I submitted a claim online, stating the situation as I've done here and requesting the 75% downgrade comp. As of today, they've refunded the difference between the F and CW avios for the journey, and nothing is showing up on my card -- which would be consistent with a simple refund of the difference since I think the cash component was the same between cabins.

1. Am I owed more? And 2., Is this something for the website, the call center, or the Twitter team?

ringingup

I am not an expert and I'm sure you'll get some competent replies, but in the meantime this post (and the whole thread) should provide useful information.

corporate-wage-slave

The thread referenced above has the details, and in particular look at the Mennens formula in the wiki to work out the cash side. The Avios aspect is a straight 75%. However you won't be able to process a claim for this until your trip is over since you may change the return leg, with consequent implications for the ticket pricing.

CrazyJ82

I'm now post travel, so that's not an issue.

Customer Relations have just come back to me saying no downgrade compensation is due since the downgrade resulted from a change of aircraft rather than an oversale, and I was informed more than 14 days in advance. I didn't think either of those factors was relevant to the situation, but perhaps I'm wrong? Having had a look through the thread another poster kindly suggested I'm still not entirely sure where the truth lies.

DYKWIA

Nonsense by BA. You are correct

I can't believe they try to get away with this sort of thing. Maybe the next big project for the class action ambulance chasers?

CrazyJ82

"Try to get away with it" indeed. They've just told me to pound sand and helpfully provided a link to CEDR. This even after I used the magic words "EC261/2004."

The tone of their correspondence sounds designed to discourage the meek from pursuing any further. Unfortunately for them, in this case it's only encouraging me. I may give Twitter a go just for kicks, and then off to CEDR I go....

omk298

You are correct in that you should get 75% of everything back for a downgrade, with the exception of actual taxes (eg APD) and fees (eg Airport departure fees). The only slight point where you're wrong is in calling it "compensation" - it's actually a reimbursement. That doesn't change anything in practice, but best not to give BA the slightest excuse for denying you the cash and avios.

If it comes to CEDR/MCOL then remember to covert the avios you're owed to cash at the rate BA are selling avios for...

TravelerMSY

That�s ridiculous. They should owe you the difference in points/cash. Dirty pool to insist that it�s a voluntary downgrade.

As a practical matter, if the space is still available, I would just cancel and rebook at the correct pricing rather than arguing with BA.

DYKWIA

That's what he/she has been given... but that's not correct under EU (and UK) law. It should be 75% of the total - not 75% of the difference.


That's the worst thing to do, as you then lose the right to get the 75%.

CrazyJ82

Aaaaand.... The Twitter team have just sent me back to customer relations. Which, since I received a deadlock letter already, means it's off to CEDR.

The irony of this situation is that when I filed the claim I would have been perfectly happy to accept most of the reimbursement in the form of the Avios. But now that their initial intransigence sent me back to FT to research the matter, I've determined I can also try to claim for the cash value of the Avios instead. Which is what I'm likely to do since the cash is more valuable to me at the moment anyway. I peg what they currently owe me at 66,000 avios plus a portion of the fees/surcharges (136,000 F redemption - 100,000 CW cost = 36,000 Avios they've already refunded me; 75% of 136,000 is 102,000, and subtract the 36,000 to get the total still due). So it's not a trivial amount of hard cash at the going rate.

They've refunded the difference in Avios already, but I'm due more under the EU/UK downgrade regulations. Also, I've already flown the itinerary in the downgraded cabin on the original flights which is a precondition for the regulatory reimbursement.

corporate-wage-slave

Yes, there isn't much point arguing it with BA, BA will probably argue this at CEDR too, though they normally lose there. If you are in a hurry you best use MCOL, since BA are struggling to keep up with the courts. If you are not in a hurry then use CEDR, keep it short with them and mention there that BA have invented a rule - about it not applying to pre-warned downgrades - which has been thrown out by the CJEU (of which CEDR is very much aware). It's possible you'll get a BA para-legal who can't be bothered going through the charade and will just refund at an early stage. Make sure you calculate the cash side accurately but then round up to the nearest �10 as per Mennens, since CEDR can't increase your figure but will happily knock it back a bit.

CrazyJ82

Next question: How does one do this? Characteristically, the "Buy Avios" page on the website is broken so I can't determine what the going rate would be. I get an error message when I try to log in. The other complicating factor is they've just started running a 50% bonus offer as of today (18 August), but I think it's more reasonable to claim against them at the normal rate for the number of Avios I'm out.

babyg_wc

Sorry to jump in on the thread, but i will be interested in the outcome of this, as BA have just done an equipment swap for BA105 LHR-DXB in December from a 777 to 350 without first, when i log into my booking i dont get a choice to move flights like the MMB page says, rather i can only CONFIRM FLIGHT... and nothing else. If i click on Confirm Flight do a lose my ability to claim the 75% downgrade etc? Also i assume i cant book a seat unless i confirm?

Also has anybody ever had BA move them onto another carrier (say emirates) who is flying first class in these circumstances?


If this isn't suitable, you can continue to look for alternative flights.

mikeyfly

You would not be moved onto Emirates, this far out there are far more options. A same day cancellation or similar might get you on Emirates but that's about it!

A13

I've had the same for a Feb/March booking, but I do have the ability to search through MMB for other dates.
Looks like only friday/saturday have First cabins, for now.