Wrongly Denied Boarding to Spain at LHR

Old Jun 11, 2021, 6:49 am
  #16  
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For the record, this is what Spain Travel Health (Ministry of Health) says (emphasis mine):

From 7 June 2021, all those passengers from a country/area that has a SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus risk, must present, a certificate or document certifying vaccination against COVID-19 or a negative certificate of a Diagnostic Test of Active Infection or a certificate of Recovery after having passed this disease in order to enter Spain. This can be a EU Digital COVID Certificate, or a supporting document of those indicated above, whether the traveller arrives from an EU member state or from a third country.

Children under 12 years of age are not required to present these certificates or supporting documents.

The list of risk countries/areas can be seen on this link.

In the case of certificates or supporting documents (vaccination, diagnostic test, recovery), which are not EU Digital COVID Certificates, they must be the original, in Spanish, English, French or German and may be submitted in paper or electronic format. Any of these documents shall contain, at least, the following data: name and surname of the traveller and:
-In the case of documentary evidence of vaccination: date of complete vaccination, vaccine administered and country of vaccination. of vaccination completed, vaccine administered and country of vaccination.
I agree Timatic could be more specific here.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:04 am
  #17  
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Before the NHS app came along, all I had was my Public Health England card. I had my first jab at a GP surgery, and they didn't bother to write my name or the date given on the card, just the expiry date of the AZ batch.

When it came to my second one, at a mass vaccination centre, they added my name and this time dated it (although my first date is still missing).

MrsNWI also didn't get her name recorded, and then when attending the same place for her second jab was questioned as to whether or not she was sure it was her card.

Now at any time either of us could have altered that data, or put someone else's name on it, or claimed a second jab before we'd actually received it. It shouldn't exactly be a surprise, in the absence of specific guidance to the contrary, that a similar CDC card was greeted with a degree of suspicion given the risk of BA being fined if they'd incorrectly carried the passenger.

It's not incompetence as was claimed, it's due diligence.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:13 am
  #18  
 
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The impression I got the other day at the First Wing was that the default position is to deny boarding and then only allow once the passenger presents their case that they are permitted entry to wherever theyre trying to get to.

We were told we wouldnt be able to travel to Gibraltar and wed need to go and get tests (before the announcement the other day). The agent was having none of it until I politely requested they check Timatic and that it is test on arrival. Still, after consulting Timatic, they needed 2 telephone calls before they pressed print on our BPs.

A US citizen at the next desk was having similar issues despite having print outs of the rules of his intended EU destination.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:18 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
This is what Timatic lays down as the requirements (my bolding):



There's absolutely no mention in there of what constitutes a valid certificate, so I can perfectly well understand the BA check-in agent denying you boarding until the necessary assurances had been received from the Spanish immigration authorities.
Originally Posted by KARFA
But the CDC card is not what anyone would call a certificate, very much like the little blue cards in the UK are not certificates. Here at least they have provided an ability to generate a proper vaccination certificate through the NHS app.
ٌThe CDC card reads record of vaccination. That is a certificate; a document doesnt have to include the word certificate for it to certify something, which the CDC record of vaccination certainly does. If anything, the absence of definition of what constitutes a valid certificate should make the CDC card that much more acceptable, since the IATA program does not say, for instance, the certificate must say certificate.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:23 am
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Originally Posted by KARFA
But the CDC card is not what anyone would call a certificate, very much like the little blue cards in the UK are not certificates. Here at least they have provided an ability to generate a proper vaccination certificate through the NHS app.
The CDC card is the designated format for a vaccine certificate as set forth by the government of the United States of America at this time and should be treated as such at this point. Iceland and its airlines have been cheerfully taking it for weeks.

Vaccinate now; paperwork later makes sense when youre trying to create fire breaks in the middle of a public health crisis but this kind of stuff is why were holding off on international travel until a common format vaccine passport comes out.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:25 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by prof
ٌThe CDC card reads record of vaccination. That is a certificate; a document doesnt have to include the word certificate for it to certify something, which the CDC record of vaccination certainly does. If anything, the absence of definition of what constitutes a valid certificate should make the CDC card that much more acceptable, since the IATA program does not say, for instance, the certificate must say certificate.
Funnily (or not) enough, this was one of the hang-ups that the CDC card does not have the word "certificate" on it.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:28 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by prof
ٌThe CDC card reads “record of vaccination.” That is a certificate; a document doesn’t have to include the word “certificate” for it to certify something, which the CDC record of vaccination certainly does. If anything, the absence of definition of what constitutes a valid certificate should make the CDC card that much more acceptable, since the IATA program does not say, for instance, “the certificate must say ‘certificate.’”
Indeed it is a record, not a certificate. There is a difference. It was never intended to be an official vaccination certificate. It is there are a reminder for your second dose and as an additional check that you get the same vaccine next time.

The US government has said that it does not intend to provide a federally issued vaccination certificate - which is a bit of an odd comment from them if your argument is that the CDC card is one already.

The CDC card is the designated format for a vaccine certificate as set forth by the government of the United States of America at this time and should be treated as such at this point. Iceland and it’s airlines have been cheerfully taking it for weeks.
No it isn't, see above. The US government has said they are not issuing vaccine certificates.

I absolutely agree that some countries are accepting them in lieu of a certificates though..
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:31 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by leontief
Funnily (or not) enough, this was one of the hang-ups that the CDC card does not have the word "certificate" on it.
Yes, unfortunately the CDC card is basically an appointment record card, but I think as there are no centrally issued certificates fortunately some countries are agreeing to accept them as proof of vaccination.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:34 am
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Originally Posted by KARFA
Yes, unfortunately the CDC card is basically an appointment record card, but I think as there are no centrally issued certificates fortunately some countries are agreeing to accept them as proof of vaccination.
Its not merely an appointment record: it certifies exactly when the bearer was vaccinated, with which vaccine, and even specific batch numbers. It is as complete a certification of vaccination as could possibly be required.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:38 am
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Everyone's getting hung up on the CDC card but, as posted above, Timatic says:

Passengers must have
- a negative COVID-19 NAAT or antigen test taken at most 48 hours before arrival. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
- a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival; or
- a COVID-19 recovery certificate issued at least 11 days after the positive COVID-19 NAAT test result. The sample for the certificate must have been taken at most 180 days before arrival.

Note the word 'or' not 'and'. The OP states they have NAAT and antigen test results. That alone should be enough regardless of the card / certificate.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by dodgeflyer
How about a thank you through the official channel for the manager? The rules are not easy to navigate these days with different countries changes its rules frequently, so keeping abreast is difficult at the best of time. Whilst I'd be angry in your situation as well, I do find seeking compensation is a bit off these days for these things (though you are probably perfectly entitled to).
He is clearly thankful his last post. If we are at the stage where staff need to be congratulated for putting right a wrong then we are in a very bad place. In this case the OP was in the right and compensation is likely to be the best way BA learn from this, not to mention the fact this delay may have caused other losses like a missed train etc.....


The BA supervisor (huge thank you to her worked tirelessly for two hours just on my case) found someone higher up who agreed with her that the CDC card is valid. I got rebooked onto the BCN flight later today. I presume I can file for some sort of compensation for having to spend my afternoon at LHR...
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 7:49 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by KARFA
Indeed it is a record, not a certificate. There is a difference.
Is there? There is not any magic format or words that need to be used to make something a "certificate". A document that officially records some information is entirely capable of certifying something even if the word "certificate" is not used anywhere. Indeed, the pdf that you get from NHS digital when you request a print out or email version does not use the word certificate either. It uses the terminology of "record" as well. If it is accepted by Spanish authorities as sufficient to establish that the passenger has been vaccinated, then it is a document certifying vaccination as far as the Spanish authorities are concerned.

Whichever way one looks at it, the OP had the correct documentation required to enter Spain and was, therefore, improperly denied boarding. Whatever is or is not on Timatic is neither here nor there. Timatic is not an official statement of enty requirements. It is merely a tool used by airlines to facilitate their task in attempting to ascertain what those requirements are. It has no authoritative value.
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 8:00 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
This is what Timatic lays down as the requirements (my bolding):
Originally Posted by Timatic
Passengers must have:
- a negative COVID-19 NAAT or antigen test taken at most 48 hours before arrival. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation;
or
- a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival; or
- a COVID-19 recovery certificate issued at least 11 days after the positive COVID-19 NAAT test result. The sample for the certificate must have been taken at most 180 days before arrival.[/QUOTE
There's absolutely no mention in there of what constitutes a valid certificate, so I can perfectly well understand the BA check-in agent denying you boarding until the necessary assurances had been received from the Spanish immigration authorities.
But if the OP was also already fulfilling the part in red, why deny boarding?
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 8:07 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Schind
Everyone's getting hung up on the CDC card but, as posted above, Timatic says:

Passengers must have
- a negative COVID-19 NAAT or antigen test taken at most 48 hours before arrival. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
- a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival; or
- a COVID-19 recovery certificate issued at least 11 days after the positive COVID-19 NAAT test result. The sample for the certificate must have been taken at most 180 days before arrival.

Note the word 'or' not 'and'. The OP states they have NAAT and antigen test results. That alone should be enough regardless of the card / certificate.
Originally Posted by Lefly
But if the OP was also already fulfilling the part in red, why deny boarding?

This might be another case of Timatic not being specific enough. This is (again) from the US embassy in Spain:

Unvaccinated U.S. citizens cannot enter Spain for tourism. Unvaccinated travelers can only enter Spain if they have already obtained special permission from the Government of Spain or meet very specific requirements. Please check the Spanish regulations carefully before attempting to travel. Travelers who meet the requirements or have obtained special permission from the Government of Spain will need to show a negative COVID test result taken with 48 hours of arrival to Spain or a medical certificate showing recovery from COVID and complete a Health Control Form and generate a QR code (See Entry and Exit Requirements below).
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Old Jun 11, 2021, 8:08 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Lefly
But if the OP was also already fulfilling the part in red, why deny boarding?
I think because, from what I understand from the first post, only the CDC card was offered up - which is a bit unfortunate, but maybe the OP didn't have quick and easy access to Timatic at the time. Could the check-in agent have helped by suggesting it? Maybe, but ultimately it's not their responsibility to do so ...
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