drkaboobi

Looking for some advice on my particular debacle with BA rebooking a Thailand trip having now spoken to BA and not had a good proposal from them.

Originally booked using a 2-4-1 for Edinburgh - Heathrow - Bangkok return in February, Business Class. Booked the outbound and return separately as soon as availabilities released at T-350 days. They are separate booking ref's, and the 2-4-1 was retrospectively applied to the return.

I have just spend over 1.5 hours on call with an agent. The outbound leg has been sorted without issue onto the flights I wanted. That was easy. However when we came to the return booking the options are terrible because i am being told the policy they have in places only allows certain flights and classes to be booked. There was nothing workable offered on or around the dates I requested to return Bangkok - Doha - Edinburgh or indeed Bangkok - Doha - London - Edinburgh. There was a flight at a hopeless time in Business from Bangkok to Doha, then an economy connection the next day to London.... I also offered to start the return routing in Phuket which would be convenient for me. I pushed them, citing a few extracts of the EU261 as to their obligations and asked for an escalation with a manager. I was on hold for an hour while they explored it, all to no avail. I am told they will explore further and phone me back tomorrow.

While on hold i went onto Qatar's website and simply booked an Avios trip from Phuket - Doha - Edinburgh on the dates and times i needed, so ultimately have the return leg sorted. I can cancel this for a nominal Ł penalty if I get a resolution from BA. But obviously i am not getting the benefit of the 2-4-1 on this, but moreover it shouldn't be my job to sort all of this out satisfactorily.

So.. What are my options here with BA, should I hang fire, phone back and hope a different agent will handle things differently? Should i cancel the return component booked with BA and just use my new Qatar booking? Or just wait a month and see how the sands have shifted..?

corporate-wage-slave

Certainly waiting may be an idea. There were reports from yesterday that there has been a recent opening up of Qatar's buckets, I don't know if that change was taken into account by the people you were speaking to. Obviously you shouldn't accept a rebooking that really doesn't work for you. Phuket is a non starter for multiple reasons so I wouldn't think about that. I'd call again in a few days.

marble

I did an online chat yesterday and had a similar response. They were happy to rebook me, but it'd be in economy rather than business. However, the person I chatted with hinted that I'd be better to call back next week as they will have new guidance for rerouting then.

JezzaG

Maybe there is a delay with some agents not picking up on the new policy. I guess wait a few days and/or ring again.

fdem

Called earlier this morning and was able to rebook my lhr/bkk 2-4-1 in business on QR. Was hoping to amend one of the flights to Phuket but was told at present not possible as needs to be same destination but pretty happy and didn’t want to wait too long as we are going in November during the world cup

JezzaG

Whilst I’m pleased that I and others are getting rebooked, what I find deeply disappointing is why BA cancelled these flights and initially used, and then created a policy, that they must have known (IMHO) was contrary to EU261 and likely to seriously pee off their customer base?

I know I will win Dumb ... Question of the Year … and it’s all about the money but when I hear of people being “bullied” (and I felt this myself) into accepting below what they are entitled then I think something has gone seriously wrong with the ethics in the company.

wb1969

I sent an email to Sean Doyle earlier this week asking the very same question. There have been some very shady business practices going on and a blatant disregard to uphold the EU261 law.

Still furious that I've had to accept a flight to Gatwick instead of Heathrow.

No reply from him yet, but ever hopeful!!!

corporate-wage-slave

Yes, but the advice in this thread at the time was very clear, repeated seveal times by multiple FTers - wait until BA organise a policy. A number of FTers, experienced in this area, pointed out that BA often needs time to sort out rebooking policies. The cancellation comes first, then a pause, then a viable rebooking policy. This has happened before and will happen again. Now ideally this would be compressed to a day rather than a week, but the advice given was to hold off rebooking. So I do think you have some responsibility for this too. It's not really about the money, it's a big company which sometimes moves quite slowly.

wb1969

I was one of those who the comments about delaying were aimed at. Sometimes you have to go with your gut.

In my case, I had a very narrow window for dates, revolving around returning at the end of October half term. I ran the risk of my kids missing a week of school and me having to take a week of unpaid leave.

I have checked every day for a week on the BA website. Nothing more has opened up in the last 4 days.

corporate-wage-slave

Yes I can see the difficulties, and there is certainly more that BA should have done. Not least because the writing was on the wall for a while so really the QR any booking class options - which appear to have been offered in the last day or so - were very much possible 1 week or even 1 month ago. Clearly one team decides BKK is still not viable and a separate team works out what to do next. But this forum is at its best when trying to navigate people around the pitfalls of travel.

flyingnomad

I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to disagree with you on this CWS!

While you are spot on about the “best practice” of waiting being well-known to seasoned BA travellers, and that anyone on the FT forums that was offered this advice should indeed just have waited before attempting to rebook, the reality is that very few of the affected passengers (i.e. only those who may be on FT or other similar forums) would have access to such advice. It is not surprising that the average (“uninformed”) traveller may panic upon receiving the cancellation notice and immediately contact BA I’m an attempt to salvage their travel plans. Doing so should not preclude them from being able to access the same rights available to them under the law.

Ultimately, the law does not allow BA to breach passenger rights while it goes about figuring out how to comply with the law. And if does feel it operationally necessary to breach those rights, those passengers that were initially not allowed bookings that were subsequently permissible, should then be offered a chance to amend bookings.

I lay the blame squarely on BA’s feet - they took their own sweet time officially communicating the cancellations even though we know the decision to cancel BKK had been made earlier, I don’t see why they could not have figured out a rebooking policy in that time period before the announcement. This would have afforded all passengers the same rebooking rights from day one of the cancellation announcement.

subject2load

Not sure how long you might have been using BA but these highly questionable practices (often amounting to a blatant disrespect for the law) are, sadly, far from new ; so much so, that they have almost become part of the company’s culture and even default modus operandi.

BA (together with - it must be said clearly - the aviation sector as a whole, but this is the BA forum) have been ‘reminded’ on more than one occasion by the CAA of their obligations and responsibilities. It’s not very long ago that they were even called before a Parliamentary Select Committee, where the inquiry included a number of questions surrounding ongoing difficulties experienced by customers in securing a cash refund as properly due, whilst instead being unwittingly made to ‘accept’ a credit voucher ; and the wilful removal of a straightforward & prompt refund facility, previously available on the website.

My own, fairly recent, experience involved a near-surreal conversation with one of the least knowledgeable OR most obstructive (it’s hard to know which ….. but perhaps a combination of both ?) members of the call centre teams. My flight to Tokyo was cancelled and I was requested on MMB to please “get in touch with us”.

I decided to wait a good couple of weeks to allow the dust to settle, as it were, but then needed to resolve my plans & itinerary for a trip which involves several other countries, not purely Japan.

The call went something like this :

Me : “Hi, I’m looking for some help please with regard to my flight to Tokyo, recently cancelled by yourselves. A note on my BAEC account says I should call you to discuss my options. The relevant locator is xxxxxx”

Agent : “Sorry about the cancellation. I have the flight details in front of me. Would you like me to arrange a refund ?”

Me : “Er ….. no thanks. What I’d like is to be booked onto an alternative flight, same routing & approximate date please”

Agent : “Let me see. Oh ….. there don’t seem to be any flights to Tokyo on those dates. It looks like the route has been suspended. A refund will be the only option”

Me : “Do you mean that there are no BA flights to Tokyo ? What about flights operated by other airlines, please ?”

Agent : “That’s right, no BA flights. I can’t speak for other airlines - but I wouldn’t be able to switch your booking to another airline anyway”

Me : “I understand that I’m entitled to be booked with an alternative carrier where there are suitable flights available. I have found a suitable flight operated by JAL”

Agent : “I cannot book flights with JAL. I can gladly re-book you for a BA flight”

Me : “What dates can you offer me for BA flights ?”

Agent : “There are no BA flights. The route has been suspended. So I can arrange a full refund for you”.

Me : “Please don’t do that. The JAL flight which I mentioned is actually showing for sale on ba.com and readily bookable online. Is there any reason why you cannot switch me to it please ? As a gold member, I was hoping for some more help but for any customer - whether gold or not - I feel sure you have a legal duty to get me to Tokyo by any reasonable means …… including a switch of my current BA reservation to a different carrier”

Agent : “There is no policy to do that. We have no arrangements with JAL. As I have already told you, the only option is a refund.

Me : “Okay, I will leave it there. Please do NOT arrange a refund. I will need a day or so to decide what to do next”.

Agent : “Is there anything else I can help you with ?”

Me : “Not at the moment, thanks, goodbye”


I won’t recount here in full the subsequent conversation with a different agent (and, I think, a different call centre) but suffice to say I met with similar resistance ; indicating to me that the refusal to follow (or, at best, the ignorance of) regulatory guidelines is far from isolated.

However, this time I was not so patient and told the agent politely - but very firmly - that I would have no option but to lodge a formal complaint concerning the unsatisfactory service and also to pursue legal action against her employer. I also quoted the relevant section of the EC / UK legislation ; whereupon, my original booking was magically switched to JAL, and promptly re-ticketed, with an emailed confirmation received within minutes.

Why oh why does it have to be like this ….. ?

Whatever happened to that old thing called customer service ? Is there really no training carried out as there was once was …. ??

It has often been said that BA management should feel ashamed for so often (admittedly, NOT always) putting their passengers through avoidable stress and additional needless effort where the airline’s handling of cancellations and other disruption is concerned. But of course they also say that where is no embarrassment, there is no shame.

Please, please BA …… can you try and get a grip. Please focus and bring an end to this shoddy treatment once & for all.

wb1969

Exactly. It's as if the call centre agents have been given a script. "Sorry Sir/Madam. We don't have an agreement/cannot book you on a flight with any other airlines on this route."

Yesterday, on a call to rebook another cancelled flight, I was told BA has no agreement to switch to Cathay Pacific. Seriously? We're expected to believe this crap? A fellow Oneworld partner?

Enough is enough. Trouble is that most people believe the crap BA feed us and just take the refund.

JD1905

My advice has always been the same, and the only way BA will learn. If that is their stance, take a refund, rebook on another airline, take them to court and get your money back. If enough people start doing this then it might encourage them to be more flexible and accommodating.

Krisz

In my experience most people doesn't bother to go to court or even raise a complaint. This includes some friends of my family who would just get a refund and if they still would go just rebook it on a different airline. Would they be angry, not that much. So I can guarantee that about 80% of the people whose flight canceled to BKK by BA will just get a refund and the best is, only maybe 50% (if that much) would be angry or upset about it. 20% will try and call and rebook, etc and only about 0.1% will lodge a MCOL case or any complaints. The other problem is that the regulator and the law has no punitive measurements to stop this practice. The regulator will write an another open letter to the airline industry and that's it. Until the airline is not facing any criminal charges nothing will change. BA's point of the view the refund is the best option because they not loosing any money. Anyone who booked and paid all that money is held by the credit card companies and only get paid to BA when you flown the ticket. The only other loser is the credit card company who can't use these funds to invest and make more profit on that. So BA have 0 interest to solve these problems. This is not new, it's going on in the past 10-15 years at least.