Bangkok 2022
#286
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 45
Excuse my ignorance, how would we go about this process of getting BA to pay for us to fly on another airline? There are no flights on my day of choice without an absurdly long layover, so just making sure that I have a plan ready
#287
formerly JackDann
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,630
In answer to your question, you will probably have to pay for the flights and then claim the money back through a small claims court.
Again, this is a worse case scenario, BA will most likely offer rebooking on on FinnAir or Qatar once the dust settles.
#288
Join Date: Apr 2020
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 95
I called again and spoke with an incredibly helpful and patient agent who said the policy keeps changing. However, she was able to find me I class fares to move my cancelled December flights to January/February 2023 with QR. Note that the flights I was offered are not those as shown as bookable on BA.com...both legs are on 777 but only LHR-DOH legs are with QSuite
#289
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: BRS
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,958
I called again and spoke with an incredibly helpful and patient agent who said the policy keeps changing. However, she was able to find me I class fares to move my cancelled December flights to January/February 2023 with QR. Note that the flights I was offered are not those as shown as bookable on BA.com...both legs are on 777 but only LHR-DOH legs are with QSuite
Bangkok gets whatever fleet planning feel like when they're building the schedules and then whatever the Flight Ops Controller in DOH feels like on the day, so it might be B777 now but could be anything from an A330 to an A380 come January.
#290
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: BAEC Gold. Hilton Diamond
Posts: 390
LHR is more or less a B777-300ER and A380 route.
Bangkok gets whatever fleet planning feel like when they're building the schedules and then whatever the Flight Ops Controller in DOH feels like on the day, so it might be B777 now but could be anything from an A330 to an A380 come January.
Bangkok gets whatever fleet planning feel like when they're building the schedules and then whatever the Flight Ops Controller in DOH feels like on the day, so it might be B777 now but could be anything from an A330 to an A380 come January.
#291
formerly JackDann
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,630
LHR is more or less a B777-300ER and A380 route.
Bangkok gets whatever fleet planning feel like when they're building the schedules and then whatever the Flight Ops Controller in DOH feels like on the day, so it might be B777 now but could be anything from an A330 to an A380 come January.
Bangkok gets whatever fleet planning feel like when they're building the schedules and then whatever the Flight Ops Controller in DOH feels like on the day, so it might be B777 now but could be anything from an A330 to an A380 come January.
#292
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BA GfL & GGL, FB Platinum, MB Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,344
InterestIng article on this from Head for Points which includes firm words for airlines from the CAA and CMA about customer treatment and legal obligations in general.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...stomer-rights/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...stomer-rights/
#293
Join Date: Feb 2022
Programs: QRPC, BAEC
Posts: 675
InterestIng article on this from Head for Points which includes firm words for airlines from the CAA and CMA about customer treatment and legal obligations in general.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...stomer-rights/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...stomer-rights/
and as mentioned again, availabilities with QR may be sparse due to world cup + Heathrow cap extending further into October half term breaks so can understand why people prefer not to just sit around..
#294
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 67
Policy & EC261
I spent an hour on the phone to the GGL team this morning trying to rebook my cancelled CW LHR-BKK-LHR flight in February 2023 booked with Avios and a 241 voucher.
After a long wait whilst they checked the "newly published policy" I was told the rebooking options were:
a) Commercial booking (i.e. cash) - rebook on QR in existing class with no restriction on fare bucket;
b) Avios booking - rebook on QR in existing class, BUT only if "I" fare bucket is available.
This was frustrating as QR have zero'ed out all "I" fare buckets for every day that I checked for every flight except the QR2 / QR838 and QR16/ QR838 both of which leave in the evening; meaning a change at 06:20 or 07:10 (which is 03:20 or 04:10 on my body clock) and then an old 777 with 2x2x2 seating.
Space is available in "J" fare bucket for the flights I want but they refused point blank, saying it was Qatar policy.
I tried citing EU261 and the CMA letter; stated that rebooking should be in same class and they should offer options that minimise passenger inconvenience; and that EC261 makes it clear frequent flyer and cash booking are treated equally - but no movement at all.
On escalation to the supervisor, he again said it was Qatar policy (eventually agreeing it was a BA policy) and said it was strange as the previous policy was "same class, any fare bucket whether commercial or Avios" both for this and the (not so recent) recent KUL cancellations. But again, no movement.
Seems surprising that BA implement a new more restrictive policy on the day the CMA and CAA warn the airlines of their responsibility!
Anyway he is escalating to the team which apparently deal with the policy, but I'm not hopeful.
Any advice and whether I can reasonable insist on a flight works for me?
After a long wait whilst they checked the "newly published policy" I was told the rebooking options were:
a) Commercial booking (i.e. cash) - rebook on QR in existing class with no restriction on fare bucket;
b) Avios booking - rebook on QR in existing class, BUT only if "I" fare bucket is available.
This was frustrating as QR have zero'ed out all "I" fare buckets for every day that I checked for every flight except the QR2 / QR838 and QR16/ QR838 both of which leave in the evening; meaning a change at 06:20 or 07:10 (which is 03:20 or 04:10 on my body clock) and then an old 777 with 2x2x2 seating.
Space is available in "J" fare bucket for the flights I want but they refused point blank, saying it was Qatar policy.
I tried citing EU261 and the CMA letter; stated that rebooking should be in same class and they should offer options that minimise passenger inconvenience; and that EC261 makes it clear frequent flyer and cash booking are treated equally - but no movement at all.
On escalation to the supervisor, he again said it was Qatar policy (eventually agreeing it was a BA policy) and said it was strange as the previous policy was "same class, any fare bucket whether commercial or Avios" both for this and the (not so recent) recent KUL cancellations. But again, no movement.
Seems surprising that BA implement a new more restrictive policy on the day the CMA and CAA warn the airlines of their responsibility!
Anyway he is escalating to the team which apparently deal with the policy, but I'm not hopeful.
Any advice and whether I can reasonable insist on a flight works for me?
#295
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,465
The legislation allows for rebooking on the next available service, or a service for which there is space in the cabin. So if we are going to be strict about this, BA should rebook by a service which is ideally the same day as the original booking and ideally as close as possible to the original booking times. There isn't a preference option in all of this, so if it's ropey old seating that's tough. If it's close to the original booked times - same day (ish) - then I think BA are within their rights to say "take it or leave it". If you then move to the "space in the cabin" argument, then on a strict view BA can offer their next BA operated services, which is of course unclear to say the least. Over time I would expect them to offer a Finnair option so it may be premature to be having this discussion, as pointed out repeatedly by several of us.
#296
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,696
The legislation allows for rebooking on the next available service, or a service for which there is space in the cabin. So if we are going to be strict about this, BA should rebook by a service which is ideally the same day as the original booking and ideally as close as possible to the original booking times. There isn't a preference option in all of this, so if it's ropey old seating that's tough. If it's close to the original booked times - same day (ish) - then I think BA are within their rights to say "take it or leave it". If you then move to the "space in the cabin" argument, then on a strict view BA can offer their next BA operated services, which is of course unclear to say the least. Over time I would expect them to offer a Finnair option so it may be premature to be having this discussion, as pointed out repeatedly by several of us.
#297
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,465
The OR statement above has a few extra words on the end, namely "subject to availability of seats". The CAA has given guidance (not law) about rebooking on other airlines, but it was all about finding a viable option more-or-less immediately and that would sometimes require the use of alternative airlines. The CMA letter today reinforces that, in terms of immediate rebooking options. And again I stress I was looking at this with a very strict interpretation headset on. But I'm not seeing anything that allows passenger convenience to extend to the selection of non BA services. Clearly BA needs to offer something for both sides of the OR statement, but in terms of what has been offered so far to the case specifically there, then BA may have some arguments. And as I say if BA does rig up an AY agreement, which they did last year, then that would satisfy EC261 in my view.
#298
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 67
Latest response from the supervisor after a response to from their team...
They said they can offer a flight on the same day that departs either 30m or 1h20 early and arrives 2h20 later so it would be a voluntary change if I wanted to move one day earlier. Obviously I said it was not voluntary as they cancelled the flight.
I'm might be able to get pretty flexible on dates as I can rebook hotels and transfers (a pain but possible with some fees to pay) so if I state that 2h20 is too late, and hence I will go the following day, can I insist on the earlier flight which would be the QR8 / QR836 under the "entitles the passenger to rebooking on a flight at the earliest opportunity" clause even if no space in "I" bucket?
Also, if they say it is not acceptable, can I just wait a few weeks / months until they change their mind or offer a AY / MH / CX option?
PS: Was told other passengers are in the process of complaining about the more restricted policy.
They said they can offer a flight on the same day that departs either 30m or 1h20 early and arrives 2h20 later so it would be a voluntary change if I wanted to move one day earlier. Obviously I said it was not voluntary as they cancelled the flight.
I'm might be able to get pretty flexible on dates as I can rebook hotels and transfers (a pain but possible with some fees to pay) so if I state that 2h20 is too late, and hence I will go the following day, can I insist on the earlier flight which would be the QR8 / QR836 under the "entitles the passenger to rebooking on a flight at the earliest opportunity" clause even if no space in "I" bucket?
Also, if they say it is not acceptable, can I just wait a few weeks / months until they change their mind or offer a AY / MH / CX option?
PS: Was told other passengers are in the process of complaining about the more restricted policy.
#299
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,696
The OR statement above has a few extra words on the end, namely "subject to availability of seats". The CAA has given guidance (not law) about rebooking on other airlines, but it was all about finding a viable option more-or-less immediately and that would sometimes require the use of alternative airlines. The CMA letter today reinforces that, in terms of immediate rebooking options. And again I stress I was looking at this with a very strict interpretation headset on. But I'm not seeing anything that allows passenger convenience to extend to the selection of non BA services. Clearly BA needs to offer something for both sides of the OR statement, but in terms of what has been offered so far to the case specifically there, then BA may have some arguments. And as I say if BA does rig up an AY agreement, which they did last year, then that would satisfy EC261 in my view.
Your interpretation pretty much reduces Art. 8.1 (c) to nothing. You have to expect it was included for a reason. Subject to availability of seats means exactly that, not subject to arbitrary availability of identical selling classes.
#300
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,465
I must have mis-understod something then. I thought they were offered QR2 (etc), and therefore the first part of the OR statement was offered by BA. Further options are also now offered. There is indeed a need to also offer something on the other side of the OR too, see above, but that's not clear from the OP's post as whether that was offered. I read it to mean that I class was available on other date., so I mis-understood to be "do I really have to accept this 2-2-2 seated flight? Do I really have to stick to I class?"