BAEC/QFF - a (hopefully not hypothetical) question set
Feb 27, 2021, 2:23 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
BAEC/QFF - a (hopefully not hypothetical) question set
Hi everybody
In a few months I will be relocating to Australia (Melbourne) for an initial 4 year period. My role there will be regional, and involve at least 1 J class return per month to SE Asia (mainly SIN, BKK, KUL and MNL) - as well as a monthly trip to AKL.
I am currently BAEC Gold with c.13k lifetime tier points. With an annual trip home, I would be able to secure 4 BA flights per year.
Assuming that H2 sees some degree of opening up in terms of travel (and that the Australian borders begin to ease - big assumption I know) - would the consensus be to credit to BA and maintain gold; or switch to QFF?
Main points for me would be to maintain tier point growth and secure maximum ‘benefits’ (best quality lounge access) for travel (business and pleasure). Avios/points earning is a secondary concern.
I thought about asking this in the QF forum, but as I’m a BAEC member, I’m keen to get the input from this community.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
In a few months I will be relocating to Australia (Melbourne) for an initial 4 year period. My role there will be regional, and involve at least 1 J class return per month to SE Asia (mainly SIN, BKK, KUL and MNL) - as well as a monthly trip to AKL.
I am currently BAEC Gold with c.13k lifetime tier points. With an annual trip home, I would be able to secure 4 BA flights per year.
Assuming that H2 sees some degree of opening up in terms of travel (and that the Australian borders begin to ease - big assumption I know) - would the consensus be to credit to BA and maintain gold; or switch to QFF?
Main points for me would be to maintain tier point growth and secure maximum ‘benefits’ (best quality lounge access) for travel (business and pleasure). Avios/points earning is a secondary concern.
I thought about asking this in the QF forum, but as I’m a BAEC member, I’m keen to get the input from this community.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Feb 27, 2021, 3:45 pm
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
I would probably do neither and credit to AA - The QF FF scheme is one of the few schemes that seems to come out worse for redemption value than BA
Based on 1 r/t in business class a month of 4000 miles e/w that would be 96,000 miles travelled which would give 192,000 qualifying miles ( if in discount business ) or 288.000 qualifying miles if travelling , as you state, in J - you would also easily meet the EQD requirements
100,000 is enough for OW Emerald with AA
96,000 miles as a OW Emerald member would accrue 264,000 in I class to 414,000 in J class spending miles - 220,000 is enough for a 1st class return from AU-Europe on EY, QR or even QF if needed and without any additional 'carrier surcharges' to pay - would need to pay genuine taxes
Also, with that number of qualifying miles, you could also collect another 3 x 40,000 miles from the beyond Executive Platinum rewards - or 2 x 40,000 miles plus be able to give a friend Platinum status
It is also a scheme where you do not need to worry about whether you can do a certain number of flights on a specific carrier
Based on 1 r/t in business class a month of 4000 miles e/w that would be 96,000 miles travelled which would give 192,000 qualifying miles ( if in discount business ) or 288.000 qualifying miles if travelling , as you state, in J - you would also easily meet the EQD requirements
100,000 is enough for OW Emerald with AA
96,000 miles as a OW Emerald member would accrue 264,000 in I class to 414,000 in J class spending miles - 220,000 is enough for a 1st class return from AU-Europe on EY, QR or even QF if needed and without any additional 'carrier surcharges' to pay - would need to pay genuine taxes
Also, with that number of qualifying miles, you could also collect another 3 x 40,000 miles from the beyond Executive Platinum rewards - or 2 x 40,000 miles plus be able to give a friend Platinum status
It is also a scheme where you do not need to worry about whether you can do a certain number of flights on a specific carrier
Last edited by Dave Noble; Feb 27, 2021 at 4:01 pm
Feb 27, 2021, 3:52 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,059
I don’t hear great things about the QF programme. If you can maintain the 4 x BA sectors then BA would work. Make sure you look at the more obscure oneworld programmes though, in case they work out better for the combinations of flights you plan to take.
If you stick with BA, it is not currently possible to register an address in Australia, although this is very soon about to change (most likely before you get there).
If you stick with BA, it is not currently possible to register an address in Australia, although this is very soon about to change (most likely before you get there).
Feb 27, 2021, 4:29 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,016
Some got the 4 BA flights from MEL-SYD (BA codeshare on QF) then BA SYD-SIN
AA is a mainly revenue based ffp. BA, AS & QF more distance based. AS is a good ffp, but AS in Oneworld will also require X own airline flights.
Not unusual for people coming to Australia for "4 year period" to be still here decades later.
Living in Melbourne you will be required to support a local Aussie Rules football team!(click the link!)
Feb 27, 2021, 4:31 pm
#6
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
Feb 27, 2021, 9:45 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RTW
Posts: 677
I agree with Dave Noble, as above, that you should consider AA (even if you never fly on them), but as others have said, it rather depends on your leisure travel pattern and long-term intentions.
Although cost of earning /acquisition is obviously for you to assess, on a straightforward AAMiles vs BA Avios vs QF Points basis, AA is a far, far better bet than QF or BA for long-haul redemptions, in particular for Business & First from Oz to Asia or Europe. Asia redemptions from Australia using AA Miles (e.g. 40K in Business & 50K in First SYD/TYO) are great value, as are those to Europe (e.g. 85k in Business and 115k in First SYD/LHR). In addition, they offer no membership fee, a greater range of creative routings on oneworld carriers (e.g. SYD to SIN via NAN for 40k in Business!), no premium for connecting flights and the frequent sales (such as current 75% bonus for Feb) can even make it worth buying AA Miles and then redeeming into an effectively flexible Business/First ticket.
Pre-covid, redemptions from Oz to/from Europe using AA Miles were also pretty easy to find on Etihad when oneworld carriers weren't available, but we'll have to see if that option returns when flights resume.
On the way back, AA redemptions can also be useful to avoid ex UK APD as adding a BA starting sector ex EU to LHR adds nothing to the miles cost but can dramatically reduce taxes.
On the other hand, QF redemptions are notoriously expensive (with the comparison caveat as above), especially if the routing involves a flight connection.
Interestingly, for Oz domestics on QF, BA Avios offer better value than QF or AA redemptions.
However if you're going to be here for 4 years, certainly join the QF FF before you leave UK (used to be free if you joined in UK?) and even if you don't credit all your flights, you can earn on everyday expenditure or consider the local credit cards. If you do decide to migrate, then QF lifetime Gold is relatively easy to achieve for a frequent business traveller.
As you say, the BA "4 flights" can be achieved in one SYD/LHR round-trip a year if you do the SIN flight number connection (i.e. BA16/15 to BA12/11), so you might as well keep that going if you plan to return or travel within Europe or Oz.
In summary, each of the schemes has "sweet-spots", which is why I have kept all 3 going since I moved down here. However I guess the fact that I have a huge pile of seldom-redeemed QF points to pass on to the kids says it all about the local carrier's scheme...
Although cost of earning /acquisition is obviously for you to assess, on a straightforward AAMiles vs BA Avios vs QF Points basis, AA is a far, far better bet than QF or BA for long-haul redemptions, in particular for Business & First from Oz to Asia or Europe. Asia redemptions from Australia using AA Miles (e.g. 40K in Business & 50K in First SYD/TYO) are great value, as are those to Europe (e.g. 85k in Business and 115k in First SYD/LHR). In addition, they offer no membership fee, a greater range of creative routings on oneworld carriers (e.g. SYD to SIN via NAN for 40k in Business!), no premium for connecting flights and the frequent sales (such as current 75% bonus for Feb) can even make it worth buying AA Miles and then redeeming into an effectively flexible Business/First ticket.
Pre-covid, redemptions from Oz to/from Europe using AA Miles were also pretty easy to find on Etihad when oneworld carriers weren't available, but we'll have to see if that option returns when flights resume.
On the way back, AA redemptions can also be useful to avoid ex UK APD as adding a BA starting sector ex EU to LHR adds nothing to the miles cost but can dramatically reduce taxes.
On the other hand, QF redemptions are notoriously expensive (with the comparison caveat as above), especially if the routing involves a flight connection.
Interestingly, for Oz domestics on QF, BA Avios offer better value than QF or AA redemptions.
However if you're going to be here for 4 years, certainly join the QF FF before you leave UK (used to be free if you joined in UK?) and even if you don't credit all your flights, you can earn on everyday expenditure or consider the local credit cards. If you do decide to migrate, then QF lifetime Gold is relatively easy to achieve for a frequent business traveller.
As you say, the BA "4 flights" can be achieved in one SYD/LHR round-trip a year if you do the SIN flight number connection (i.e. BA16/15 to BA12/11), so you might as well keep that going if you plan to return or travel within Europe or Oz.
In summary, each of the schemes has "sweet-spots", which is why I have kept all 3 going since I moved down here. However I guess the fact that I have a huge pile of seldom-redeemed QF points to pass on to the kids says it all about the local carrier's scheme...
Last edited by Bullswood; Feb 28, 2021 at 1:02 am
Feb 27, 2021, 11:27 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Once you calculate how many flights you’ll be taking, you might consider QF to get lifetime gold (OW Sapphire) at 14000 status credits. This is relatively low and one of the few lifetime sapphire programs.
Feb 28, 2021, 1:12 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 508
Having had exceptional value from AS over the last few years, as aUK resident and very rarely actually flying Alaska, I would definitely be keeping an eye out in the coming month to see what earn and burn rates they will be adopting.
whilst the general consensus is that they will definitely be some changes to their existing oneworld partners, the current 72,500 miles with free stopover for flying CX from AU to EU is very difficult to beat.
whilst the general consensus is that they will definitely be some changes to their existing oneworld partners, the current 72,500 miles with free stopover for flying CX from AU to EU is very difficult to beat.
Feb 28, 2021, 1:26 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,016
off topic
AS do not offer Australia to Europe as a single award. Would need to be 2 awards. so the "stop over" is not relevant.
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...s/award-charts
AS are going to have a X own flights requirement for status when they join OW.
on topic
Having had exceptional value from AS over the last few years, as a UK resident and very rarely actually flying Alaska, I would definitely be keeping an eye out in the coming month to see what earn and burn rates they will be adopting.
Whilst the general consensus is that they will definitely be some changes to their existing oneworld partners, the current 72,500 miles with free stopover for flying CX from AU to EU is very difficult to beat.
Whilst the general consensus is that they will definitely be some changes to their existing oneworld partners, the current 72,500 miles with free stopover for flying CX from AU to EU is very difficult to beat.
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...s/award-charts
AS are going to have a X own flights requirement for status when they join OW.
on topic
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Feb 28, 2021 at 3:25 am Reason: spelling
Feb 28, 2021, 3:16 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
Feb 28, 2021, 3:21 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
Agreed. Crystal ball is still clouding
Some got the 4 BA flights from MEL-SYD (BA codeshare on QF) then BA SYD-SIN
AA is a mainly revenue based ffp. BA, AS & QF more distance based. AS is a good ffp, but AS in Oneworld will also require X own airline flights.
Not unusual for people coming to Australia for "4 year period" to be still here decades later.
Living in Melbourne you will be required to support a local Aussie Rules football team!(click the link!)
Some got the 4 BA flights from MEL-SYD (BA codeshare on QF) then BA SYD-SIN
AA is a mainly revenue based ffp. BA, AS & QF more distance based. AS is a good ffp, but AS in Oneworld will also require X own airline flights.
Not unusual for people coming to Australia for "4 year period" to be still here decades later.
Living in Melbourne you will be required to support a local Aussie Rules football team!(click the link!)
Feb 28, 2021, 3:58 am
#13
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 411
QF Lifetime Gold (Sapphire) is probably the sweet spot of the programme. MEL to SIN return in discount business class for example will earn 240 Status Credits in QF (or 280 Tier in BA Exec Club). Potentially based on the expected travel over the 4 years they should get to QF Lifetime Gold (if the flights are on QF codes). If they can earn a large number of points in Australia through through non flying activities (e.g. Credit Cards, Woolworths supermarket shopping, BP etc) they could qualify for Points Club which would mean they would also earn Status Credits on QF redemption flights. There are also sometimes opportunities to earn Status Credits from non flying activity (e.g taking out a credit card, energy providers etc).
Having said that they are also already more than a third of the way towards BA Lifetime Gold (Emerald) at 35,000 Tier Points. A monthly return flight at 280 Tier Points over 4 years will give them another 13,440 Lifetime Tier Points. If the monthly trip to AKL is on a QF code in business it would earn 80 Tier Points return adding another 3,840 Lifetime Tier Points. Adding this to their current 13,000 Lifetime Tier Points takes them to around 30,000 Lifetime Tier Points. An annual trip to LHR on BA (assuming a connection form MEL to SYD) in business would add another 560 Lifetime Tier Points per year would take them to over 32,000 Lifetime Tier points so very close to BA Lifetime Gold.
In those circumstances I would probably on balance stick with with BA Exec Club, although I think it is a close call between that and QFF.
Feb 28, 2021, 4:00 am
#14
Join Date: May 2006
Programs: AAdvatage Executive Platinum / Cathay Pacific Marco Polo Club - Green
Posts: 169
American is changing its program so that platinum pro will be OneWorld Emerald as well as executive platinum. That means you only need 75,000 miles to get Emerald status.
I would probably do neither and credit to AA - The QF FF scheme is one of the few schemes that seems to come out worse for redemption value than BA
Based on 1 r/t in business class a month of 4000 miles e/w that would be 96,000 miles travelled which would give 192,000 qualifying miles ( if in discount business ) or 288.000 qualifying miles if travelling , as you state, in J - you would also easily meet the EQD requirements
100,000 is enough for OW Emerald with AA
96,000 miles as a OW Emerald member would accrue 264,000 in I class to 414,000 in J class spending miles - 220,000 is enough for a 1st class return from AU-Europe on EY, QR or even QF if needed and without any additional 'carrier surcharges' to pay - would need to pay genuine taxes
Also, with that number of qualifying miles, you could also collect another 3 x 40,000 miles from the beyond Executive Platinum rewards - or 2 x 40,000 miles plus be able to give a friend Platinum status
It is also a scheme where you do not need to worry about whether you can do a certain number of flights on a specific carrier
Based on 1 r/t in business class a month of 4000 miles e/w that would be 96,000 miles travelled which would give 192,000 qualifying miles ( if in discount business ) or 288.000 qualifying miles if travelling , as you state, in J - you would also easily meet the EQD requirements
100,000 is enough for OW Emerald with AA
96,000 miles as a OW Emerald member would accrue 264,000 in I class to 414,000 in J class spending miles - 220,000 is enough for a 1st class return from AU-Europe on EY, QR or even QF if needed and without any additional 'carrier surcharges' to pay - would need to pay genuine taxes
Also, with that number of qualifying miles, you could also collect another 3 x 40,000 miles from the beyond Executive Platinum rewards - or 2 x 40,000 miles plus be able to give a friend Platinum status
It is also a scheme where you do not need to worry about whether you can do a certain number of flights on a specific carrier
Feb 28, 2021, 4:14 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: near Heathrow
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL (OWE), SA LifePlat (*G), BD Gold to the end, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,911
When allocating Partner cards from my GGL benefits, residents of Australia and NZ were excluded from BAEC, apparently due to an historical agreement between QF and BA. Is that still the case and would it impact OP retaining membership of BAEC and earning BA avios while resident in Australia?
Last edited by gcuk; Feb 28, 2021 at 4:19 am
