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Colossus Feb 20, 2021 5:42 am

One Way to New Zealand using Avios
 
Later in the year (October/November) I am planning to move from London to New Zealand with my wife and 1 year old. I am a New Zealand passport holder (as too is my child) and my wife is in the process of applying for a resident visa.

We currently have approximately 300K Avios and 2x BA Amex Companion vouchers, so we were hoping to use these to get us there - particularly as one way cash bookings on such a route never represent good value.

I was wanting to see if anyone has any suggestions on how we may be able to get there by using our Avios and companion voucher. We would like to either do Business class or a mix of Business and Premium Economy. Happy to book in 2 legs and stay overnight if it makes more sense, and will be allowed given potential Covid entry restrictions still in place then.

I understand flying to Sydney may be difficult due to availability and entry restrictions. I was considering using BA to somewhere like:
- Doha
- Hong Kong
- Tokyo
- Singapore
- Los Angeles
- San Francisco
Then booking either a cash one way to Auckland from there (One World ideally as BA silver card holders, but not necessary if doing business class and get additional luggage), or if One World carrier availability exists, doing an Avios redemption. We would be OK with spending up to an additional £2500 for one way tickets for the 3 of us, for the final leg, if we had to do cash.

In the case of Doha, a cash booking would probably be no cheaper than doing from London on Qatar, so only Avios would really be an option. Although strangely one way business flights from South Africa to Auckland via Doha on Qatar seem quite reasonable for dates I was checking (and my wife is from South Africa) - but we aren’t confident it will be feasible to go back there then.

Any suggestions on a suitable route to do this - particularly if there are any other stopovers I haven’t considered or if others have similar experience?

Many thanks.

Mwenenzi Feb 20, 2021 6:04 am

No one knows what the situation will be in Oct-Nov 2021 Looking 30-60 days before travel would be best, but NZ MIQ is the big issue.

But it can be expected both AU & NZ will still have travel restrictions and the 14 days self paid quarantine for all of 2021. AU will not finish vaccinations until end of Oct. For NZ your guess is as good as anyone's (including Jacinda's), NZ has not published a hard vaccination policy-time line.

For NZ MIQ slots are hard to get. This will determine when you travel. After making a MIQ booking you have 48hrs to add flight number and PNR. When a new month is released they go in days. NZ Govt has budgeted for MIQ to continue to mid 2022 (=not 2021)Link-->https://allocation.miq.govt.nz/portal/ .

Currently you would not be allowed to go via USA. USA does not have "transit". A full USA ESTA or equal required and processing USA immigration-customs.

On current AU polices there are no issues transiting Sydney (or MEL - BNE) if on one ticket. A ticket to AU and then a separate ticket trans Tasman would likely fail, as the first airline would see AU as your destination, for which currently you would not be allowed to enter. Link--->https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/

Currently Qatar QR flys DOH-BNE-AKL
Also keep a watch on CX Cathay
BA are currently not flying to SYD. Flights end at SIN By Oct Nov no-one knows.
Also currently SQ flys 2 days a week into CHC. All other current international flights go into AKL
Look here who in flying into NZ. But some may be cargo only flights or not real (to be or are cancelled). --->https://www.aucklandairport.co.nz/flights

Colossus Feb 20, 2021 7:40 am

Thanks very much for the detail Mwenenzi .

Yes, I’m aware of the MIQ situation - I should be able to get the date we need when they open up around June. I know we need to provide the flight details shortly after booking MIQ, I presume it is fine to book the flight beforehand as well (on the assumption MIQ will be secured for date wanted, or flight has flexibility to move date if needed)? There is a chance that a trans-Tasman bubble will be in operation by then, which should increase the general availability in MIQ.

In any case we will need to work out where we want to transit / stopover, so will keep an eye on US developments and schedules arriving into Auckland.

Mwenenzi Feb 20, 2021 7:54 am

Yes. You can book MIQ and then the flight. Or book the flight and then the MIQ.
And hope both match or can change the flight. Most flights are not every day. Just a few times a week. All your own risk-gamble.
With MIQ you can change the flight details for the day. But if you want to change the MIQ date need to make a new MIQ and cancel the first. (That's what I did a few months ago - it may be different now) Or email MIQ.
Worth registering with the MIQ portal now. From looking at MIQ portal over the last few months the first week of a new month(when it goes online) goes very quickly. Later in the month a little longer
Some facebook groups on MIQ.

From reports before Christmas MIQ was 40% occupied by people ex Australia. However has seen reports/opinion that if the full TT bubble eventuates the MIQ capacity may reduce by the same amount.

Transiting - stop over will be issue. Separate tickets at some airport may be impossible depending on the rules at the time. If separate ticket you are not "transiting". Just the end of a flight/ticket at an airport and the start of new flight/ticket at the same airport. I would be looking for single ticket UK to NZ.

Colossus Feb 20, 2021 8:03 am


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 33049658)
Worth registering with the MIQ portal now. From looking at MIQ portal over the last few months the first week of a new month(when it goes online) goes very quickly. Later in the month a little longer

Yes, already registered. Thanks for the observations about what has been getting booked quickly. Will probably look towards end of October on that basis.


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 33049658)
Transiting - stop over will be issue. Separate tickets at some airport may be impossible depending on the rules at the time. If separate ticket you are not "transiting". Just the end of a flight/ticket at an airport and the start of new flight/ticket at the same airport. I would be looking for single ticket UK to NZ.

Yeah - it will most likely need to be a stopover somewhere we can stay a night or 2. Will need to keep an eye on countries that will allow this.
If we need to book single ticket from UK, will do that, but given our Avios/voucher situation will try to get something that way if at all possible. We could possibly do Premium Economy via HK on Cathay (without using the voucher), need to check availability and schedule.

Mwenenzi Feb 20, 2021 8:08 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33049676)
Yes, already registered. Thanks for the observations about what has been getting booked quickly. Will probably look towards end of October on that basis.

May MIQ is fully booked. Look when June is released so see if there is a pattern. April & May went on line 21 Jan

Colossus Feb 20, 2021 8:10 am


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 33049683)
May MIQ is fully booked. Look when June is released so see if there is a pattern. April & May went on line 21 Jan

Yeah, will keep an eye on it as they open up for June.

Sorry edited my response on my previous post, after seeing your note re. transiting.

Colesmore Feb 20, 2021 9:17 am

Having a look at redemptions for the three of you one stopping through HKG is 260k points +~£500 in premium and 390k points +~£750 in business. Currently Singapore isn't allowing transit if you've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, and HK not allowing transit if you're on separate tickets. It's these two restrictions that eliminate (as far as I can tell) companion voucher options through these ports as your onward travel would be on a separate ticket.

As you've already got 2 companion vouchers I'm assuming you don't have a way of getting more quickly/easily (through sign up bonuses) and could even *gulp* buy Avios to make up the shortfall (Iberia is selling Avios with a 50% bonus ATM.) The shortfall in Avios could be made up for less cash than your desired total outlay, with the usual caveats associated with this type of purchase.

Later in the year shows daily LHR-HKG-AKL flights and many with Avios availability, however based on their current schedule and the rate of improvement I'm doubtful they'll all be running. Perhaps if booking best to mirror what they're currently operating (or will be in the next month or two).

In any case I feel you'll need an element of good fortune for everything to come off with the move (as does a lot of travel to the antipodes at the moment) but I'm sure with time, flexibility and FT at your disposal you'll get an agreeable solution. Good travels!

Often1 Feb 20, 2021 9:24 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33049676)
Yes, already registered. Thanks for the observations about what has been getting booked quickly. Will probably look towards end of October on that basis.


Yeah - it will most likely need to be a stopover somewhere we can stay a night or 2. Will need to keep an eye on countries that will allow this.
If we need to book single ticket from UK, will do that, but given our Avios/voucher situation will try to get something that way if at all possible. We could possibly do Premium Economy via HK on Cathay (without using the voucher), need to check availability and schedule.

The problem with this tactic is that what may be possible on the day you book and secure your MIQ slot, may not be permitted weeks or months later. Thus, a stop over may leave you either stranded or simply denied boarding at LON and with tickets which cannot be rebooked through some other point. This then means losing your MIQ slot and possibly having to wait another few months for another slot and then new routing.

In these times, I would strongly urge booking simple routings which involve only connections, e.g. one ticket and do not involve multiple transits. The ultimate cost may be much, much higher and thus the initial savings may be lost rather quickyl.

Colossus Feb 20, 2021 12:26 pm


Originally Posted by Colesmore (Post 33049797)
Having a look at redemptions for the three of you one stopping through HKG is 260k points +~£500 in premium and 390k points +~£750 in business. Currently Singapore isn't allowing transit if you've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, and HK not allowing transit if you're on separate tickets. It's these two restrictions that eliminate (as far as I can tell) companion voucher options through these ports as your onward travel would be on a separate ticket.

As you've already got 2 companion vouchers I'm assuming you don't have a way of getting more quickly/easily (through sign up bonuses) and could even *gulp* buy Avios to make up the shortfall (Iberia is selling Avios with a 50% bonus ATM.) The shortfall in Avios could be made up for less cash than your desired total outlay, with the usual caveats associated with this type of purchase.

Later in the year shows daily LHR-HKG-AKL flights and many with Avios availability, however based on their current schedule and the rate of improvement I'm doubtful they'll all be running. Perhaps if booking best to mirror what they're currently operating (or will be in the next month or two).

In any case I feel you'll need an element of good fortune for everything to come off with the move (as does a lot of travel to the antipodes at the moment) but I'm sure with time, flexibility and FT at your disposal you'll get an agreeable solution. Good travels!

Thank you very much!

I was actually looking before at the gov.uk entry requirements for HK and it mentions:

“Transiting Hong Kong

Transit services at Hong Kong International Airport resumed on 15 June 2020 for passengers who can be checked through from port of origin to final destination. Transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed.”

I thought this means it is ok to transit on separate tickets? Obviously there is additional risk in doing this in any case, if one flight is changed/cancelled.

In reality I think we’ll just try and monitor the situation for a few months, and unless we can realistically get out somewhere for a few days (due to policy changes), will look at booking a single ticket.

Colossus Feb 20, 2021 12:32 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 33049811)
The problem with this tactic is that what may be possible on the day you book and secure your MIQ slot, may not be permitted weeks or months later. Thus, a stop over may leave you either stranded or simply denied boarding at LON and with tickets which cannot be rebooked through some other point. This then means losing your MIQ slot and possibly having to wait another few months for another slot and then new routing.

In these times, I would strongly urge booking simple routings which involve only connections, e.g. one ticket and do not involve multiple transits. The ultimate cost may be much, much higher and thus the initial savings may be lost rather quickyl.

Thanks! Yes, the MIQ considerations definitely makes any separate bookings risky, unless we perhaps stopover somewhere else for an extended period. We won’t be in any major rush to leave or arrive, so have some flexibility, things could change a lot in the next 6-9 months - the only thing forcing us to lock in a date is the MIQ booking unfortunately.

Colesmore Feb 20, 2021 12:46 pm


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33050165)
Thank you very much!

I was actually looking before at the gov.uk entry requirements for HK and it mentions:

“Transiting Hong Kong

Transit services at Hong Kong International Airport resumed on 15 June 2020 for passengers who can be checked through from port of origin to final destination. Transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed.”

I thought this means it is ok to transit on separate tickets? Obviously there is additional risk in doing this in any case, if one flight is changed/cancelled.

In reality I think we’ll just try and monitor the situation for a few months, and unless we can realistically get out somewhere for a few days (due to policy changes), will look at booking a single ticket.

Pulling from the CX website, and in line with what could be slightly ambiguous above, transit is allowed if:
  • Their itinerary is contained in a single booking;
  • They meet the entry requirements of their final destination;
  • They have their baggage checked through to the final destination;
  • They have been issued their onward boarding pass(es) from their origin; and
  • The connection time between flights is within 24 hours.
Perhaps an option could be to book soonish/in line with your MIQ date, and then ammend the Avios booking for a small fee if/when conditions change and you can have a layover.

Often1 Feb 20, 2021 1:06 pm


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33050165)
Thank you very much!

I was actually looking before at the gov.uk entry requirements for HK and it mentions:

“Transiting Hong Kong

Transit services at Hong Kong International Airport resumed on 15 June 2020 for passengers who can be checked through from port of origin to final destination. Transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed.”

I thought this means it is ok to transit on separate tickets? Obviously there is additional risk in doing this in any case, if one flight is changed/cancelled.

In reality I think we’ll just try and monitor the situation for a few months, and unless we can realistically get out somewhere for a few days (due to policy changes), will look at booking a single ticket.

You presume that at some point in the future, you will be permitted to stop over at your chosen location. That is something I would not do.

polochick Feb 20, 2021 3:39 pm


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33050165)
I was actually looking before at the gov.uk entry requirements for HK and it mentions:

“Transiting Hong Kong

Transit services at Hong Kong International Airport resumed on 15 June 2020 for passengers who can be checked through from port of origin to final destination. Transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed.”

I thought this means it is ok to transit on separate tickets? Obviously there is additional risk in doing this in any case, if one flight is changed/cancelled.

Transit applies to one ticket, not separate tickets. What it means when it says transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed is that you can do this if both sectors are on the same ticket - previously you could not.

cauchy Feb 20, 2021 4:16 pm

Wednesdays in November seem to have business reward availability on LHR-KUL-AKL on MH (very few seats), there's also a BA/CX reward combination in Premium Economy (slightly more seats on some Wednesdays). Unfortunately, the protection you get by keeping everything on a single ticket is the price for not using the voucher, unfortunately.

Of course, the other option is to take a punt on a transit point, and if it all goes wrong you buy a cash ticket. I'm not sure the gamble is worth it.

cauchy Feb 20, 2021 4:18 pm


Originally Posted by polochick (Post 33050576)
Transit applies to one ticket, not separate tickets. What it means when it says transiting between flights operated by different airlines is now allowed is that you can do this if both sectors are on the same ticket - previously you could not.

This is, of course, something that's transit point specific. Some will be happy with separate onward bookings, others not. If it's a transit point that allows transit on separate tickets, then needing to apply for a physical visa before departure can be an advantage: it's far less likely that you'll be denied boarding by an over-zealous airline official.

Dave Noble Feb 20, 2021 4:26 pm


Originally Posted by cauchy (Post 33050648)
This is, of course, something that's transit point specific. Some will be happy with separate onward bookings, others not. If it's a transit point that allows transit on separate tickets, then needing to apply for a physical visa before departure can be an advantage: it's far less likely that you'll be denied boarding by an over-zealous airline official.

If travel is via Australia, one of the taxes that will have been paid using 2 tickets vs 1 is the tax for immigration clearance

I wouldn't take the risk of trying to travel via Australia if it was me - especially with limited number of permitted passengers

polochick Feb 20, 2021 4:51 pm


Originally Posted by cauchy (Post 33050648)
This is, of course, something that's transit point specific. Some will be happy with separate onward bookings, others not. If it's a transit point that allows transit on separate tickets, then needing to apply for a physical visa before departure can be an advantage: it's far less likely that you'll be denied boarding by an over-zealous airline official.

Agree but the question was about Hong Kong on separate tickets in Covid times.

Colossus Feb 21, 2021 12:43 am

Thanks all for your replies. It seems the consensus is that 2 tickets is not worth it. Given that flying BA to NZ with the companion voucher is not possible, I think realistically we are left with the following options:

1 - One way avios ticket on Qatar, Cathay, Malaysian etc., London to Auckland. The reality is this will likely cost more than 300K avios (for 2 adults + infant) in any of the premium cabins, given 2 sectors. As pointed out above earning/purchasing additional avios could make sense depending on amount and cost.

2 - One way cash booking on similar. I am not sure any airlines offer one way tickets on this route for any less than approximately 80% of a return (sometimes more than the return), particularly in premium cabins.

Is it possible to book a single ticket on these airlines in different classes (for either avios or cash)? For example London - Doha leg in Economy, then Doha - Auckland leg in Business?

Also I take it there is no option to upgrade using Avios on non BA flights? (Edit: I have seen that this is not possible except on certain American/Iberian flights, which don’t help get us there either).

cameramaker Feb 21, 2021 3:48 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33051251)
Thanks all for your replies. It seems the consensus is that 2 tickets is not worth it. Given that flying BA to NZ with the companion voucher is not possible, I think realistically we are left with the following options:

1 - One way avios ticket on Qatar, Cathay, Malaysian etc., London to Auckland. The reality is this will likely cost more than 300K avios (for 2 adults + infant) in any of the premium cabins, given 2 sectors. As pointed out above earning/purchasing additional avios could make sense depending on amount and cost.

2 - One way cash booking on similar. I am not sure any airlines offer one way tickets on this route for any less than approximately 80% of a return (sometimes more than the return), particularly in premium cabins.

Is it possible to book a single ticket on these airlines in different classes (for either avios or cash)? For example London - Doha leg in Economy, then Doha - Auckland leg in Business?

Also I take it there is no option to upgrade using Avios on non BA flights? (Edit: I have seen that this is not possible except on certain American/Iberian flights, which don’t help get us there either).

You can mix classes on an Avios booking, but you need to call to do so. I recently booked LHR-HKG in J and HKG-PER in W on a single ticket. It’s best to search for the through ticket to find availability. There was no availability on just the PER sector, but availability in all classes when searching for the through ticket.

Colossus Feb 21, 2021 4:15 am


Originally Posted by cameramaker (Post 33051402)
You can mix classes on an Avios booking, but you need to call to do so. I recently booked LHR-HKG in J and HKG-PER in W on a single ticket. It’s best to search for the through ticket to find availability. There was no availability on just the PER sector, but availability in all classes when searching for the through ticket.

Thanks!

Can I just check what you mean by search for the through ticket? I had thought award availability was held/shown per sector, and that you would just need to check the 2 sectors could be booked on a single ticket?

brunos Feb 21, 2021 4:56 am

I know that some believe that with vaccination the situation will be much better by October and flights will resume a semi-normal schedule. I pray that they are right, but I do not share that optimism.
Even if the vaccine is somewhat effective on the new variants, most Asian countries have not started or are just starting vaccination. Current schedules for Oct/Nov are purely theoretical. These are placeholders and most flights won't materialize. Given your MIQ constraint, I would suggest that you look at what currently flies and plan similar itinerary as they are more likely to operate in the future. The situation might improve, but with a family and a MIQ date constraint, I find it better to be risk averse.

As Often1 mentioned, plan the most direct routing NOT involving a stopover.
Betting on a stopover in Hong Kong is a no-no. Even a stopover in SYD is extremely risky. Remember that AU has a zero case objective, hoping that they will let in some tourists from Europe in six month time without quarantine is a dream.
You have mentioned HKG as a possible transit point. Hong Kong started today even more restrictive measures where any crew coming from elsewhere has to hotel quarantine for 2 weeks. Flights from UK are already banned and BA flies with no pax LHR-HKG but a double crew using the F cabin. The double crew will now be required for any longhaul airline flying to HKG. Only NZ flies HKG-AKL once in a while. If travellers from UK are again accepted, you will need to be on a single ticket BA/NZ to transit in HKG (or CX/NZ NZ codeshares CX but that won't work for avios).
MH is not an option as there currently no flights to AKL.

At the current time, the best one-transit routes are SQ or QR.

Confus Feb 21, 2021 5:08 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33051422)
Can I just check what you mean by search for the through ticket? I had thought award availability was held/shown per sector, and that you would just need to check the 2 sectors could be booked on a single ticket?

Search online by individual sector, but call to book. The agent will process as a single transaction and ticket accordingly (assuming through tickets are legally permissible for the itinerary, which they almost always are).

sbs2716g Feb 21, 2021 5:19 am


Originally Posted by Colesmore (Post 33049797)
Having a look at redemptions for the three of you one stopping through HKG is 260k points +~£500 in premium and 390k points +~£750 in business. Currently Singapore isn't allowing transit if you've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, and HK not allowing transit if you're on separate tickets. It's these two restrictions that eliminate (as far as I can tell) companion voucher options through these ports as your onward travel would be on a separate ticket.

just to clarify that transit via SIN from U.K. to Sydney n AKL is still possible right now even though SIN Gov have banned transit.

However, it will be on a same plane journey.
On certain day, the plane from LHR to SIN will continue its journey to SYD. Those paxes going to SYD won’t be able to get down the plane at Changi. Same go for AKL.

So basically you will be sitting in the plane for around 24 hrs.

Colossus Feb 21, 2021 6:18 am


Originally Posted by brunos (Post 33051459)
I know that some believe that with vaccination the situation will be much better by October and flights will resume a semi-normal schedule. I pray that they are right, but I do not share that optimism.
Even if the vaccine is somewhat effective on the new variants, most Asian countries have not started or are just starting vaccination. Current schedules for Oct/Nov are purely theoretical. These are placeholders and most flights won't materialize. Given your MIQ constraint, I would suggest that you look at what currently flies and plan similar itinerary as they are more likely to operate in the future. The situation might improve, but with a family and a MIQ date constraint, I find it better to be risk averse.

As Often1 mentioned, plan the most direct routing NOT involving a stopover.
Betting on a stopover in Hong Kong is a no-no. Even a stopover in SYD is extremely risky. Remember that AU has a zero case objective, hoping that they will let in some tourists from Europe in six month time without quarantine is a dream.
You have mentioned HKG as a possible transit point. Hong Kong started today even more restrictive measures where any crew coming from elsewhere has to hotel quarantine for 2 weeks. Flights from UK are already banned and BA flies with no pax LHR-HKG but a double crew using the F cabin. The double crew will now be required for any longhaul airline flying to HKG. Only NZ flies HKG-AKL once in a while. If travellers from UK are again accepted, you will need to be on a single ticket BA/NZ to transit in HKG (or CX/NZ NZ codeshares CX but that won't work for avios).
MH is not an option as there currently no flights to AKL.

At the current time, the best one-transit routes are SQ or QR.

Thanks for the detailed response. Yes, no longer considering any stopovers given there is too much uncertainty, and tickets will need to be booked around June to fit in with the MIQ booking.

I was looking at HKG primarily as it is One World, has some availability, and we could likely make it work with Avios, possibly one leg PE and the other Business. If there is still a chance UK passengers won’t be able to transit come June, that option is a non starter.

With respect to Qatar, we will struggle to have the points to do a single ticket Avios booking, as the Doha-Auckland leg in business alone effectively exhausts our balance. Cash fares in business are very high (£3500 one way), and doing a 17 hour trip in economy with an infant is not really an option.

Singapore unfortunately not being part of OW, means only cash bookings. Business one way also seems very expensive, PE is doable, so will take a look at that.

Colossus Feb 21, 2021 6:21 am


Originally Posted by sbs2716g (Post 33051483)
just to clarify that transit via SIN from U.K. to Sydney n AKL is still possible right now even though SIN Gov have banned transit.

However, it will be on a same plane journey.
On certain day, the plane from LHR to SIN will continue its journey to SYD. Those paxes going to SYD won’t be able to get down the plane at Changi. Same go for AKL.

So basically you will be sitting in the plane for around 24 hrs.

Thanks for that info. Being on a plane for 24 hours doesn’t sound like much fun.

brunos Feb 21, 2021 6:48 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33051537)
Thanks for the detailed response. Yes, no longer considering any stopovers given there is too much uncertainty, and tickets will need to be booked around June to fit in with the MIQ booking.

I was looking at HKG primarily as it is One World, has some availability, and we could likely make it work with Avios, possibly one leg PE and the other Business. If there is still a chance UK passengers won’t be able to transit come June, that option is a non starter.

With respect to Qatar, we will struggle to have the points to do a single ticket Avios booking, as the Doha-Auckland leg in business alone effectively exhausts our balance. Cash fares in business are very high (£3500 one way), and doing a 17 hour trip in economy with an infant is not really an option.

Singapore unfortunately not being part of OW, means only cash bookings. Business one way also seems very expensive, PE is doable, so will take a look at that.

Very wise to relax and wait till June.
Your current major problem is flights to AKL. There are almost no international flights.
NZ has enjoyed almost normal life with very very few cases, mostly imported. But they are not ready to relax their policy for a long while. Vaccination just started this week end.
There will be a cost associated to getting to NZ, and you have to expect it unfortunately. Better be expecting it and be happily surprised.

Indeed travelling with an infant during two long flights is no fun, especially in Y.
But a lot of people have done it, me included when I was much younger. And 24h of suffering is not the end of the world.

In the meanwhile, just relax and see how the situation evolve by the end of June.

cameramaker Feb 21, 2021 8:29 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33051422)
Thanks!

Can I just check what you mean by search for the through ticket? I had thought award availability was held/shown per sector, and that you would just need to check the 2 sectors could be booked on a single ticket?

Searching for LHR-PER gave me award availability in CX in Y, W and J. Searching LHR-HKG returned the same availability, but searching HKG-PER showed zero availability. This was the same when searching SYD-LHR, there were reward seats available but none for just the SYD-HKG sector.

Colossus Feb 21, 2021 1:00 pm


Originally Posted by brunos (Post 33051567)
Very wise to relax and wait till June.
Your current major problem is flights to AKL. There are almost no international flights.
NZ has enjoyed almost normal life with very very few cases, mostly imported. But they are not ready to relax their policy for a long while. Vaccination just started this week end.
There will be a cost associated to getting to NZ, and you have to expect it unfortunately. Better be expecting it and be happily surprised.

Indeed travelling with an infant during two long flights is no fun, especially in Y.
But a lot of people have done it, me included when I was much younger. And 24h of suffering is not the end of the world.

In the meanwhile, just relax and see how the situation evolve by the end of June.

Yeah, I think I’ll try not to worry too much for now, fingers crossed more options open up over the coming months.

I am actually fine flying Economy if I have to - my wife however is determined to fly business at almost any cost, including her and the infant flying up front and me down the back. :D

From an Avios point of view this would actually work, but it wouldn’t be my ideal scenario.

continentalclub Feb 25, 2021 11:33 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33052187)
Yeah, I think I’ll try not to worry too much for now, fingers crossed more options open up over the coming months.

I am actually fine flying Economy if I have to - my wife however is determined to fly business at almost any cost, including her and the infant flying up front and me down the back. :D

From an Avios point of view this would actually work, but it wouldn’t be my ideal scenario.

Generally-speaking, unless you're absolutely rolling in Avios, I'd tend to consider them to be one of the poorer 'value' currencies for redemptions to New Zealand. Into Sydney, with a 2-4-1, it's just about justifiable, but still not great.

I'd therefore ask two things; firstly: do you have any American Express Membership Rewards (or could you acquire any), and/or secondly, do you have any American AAdvantage miles (or, again, could you acquire any)?

In the case of AmEx, conversion to Cathay Asia Miles is 1:1 and Cathay charges 85,000 miles in Business from the UK to New Zealand on its own metal, and 90,000 miles on partner airlines. So, 90,000 would get you on to Qatar via Doha. When you consider how many Avios are required (and tangentially that Membership Rewards to Avios is also 1:1), the Cathay route is hugely 'cheaper'.

Alternatively, AAdvantage charges 85,000 on a partner airline.

So, if you don't have any or access to Membership Rewards, and you don't have any or access to AAdvantage miles, then you could look at buying the latter.

At the moment, my account (and I say this as sometimes members get different pricing) shows that 110,000 miles will cost USD3547.50, which is roughly GBP2615 worst case.

However, that will generate a 66,000 mile bonus, so you'll get 176,000 miles credited, enough for two Business Class seats. Taxes, fees and charges, assuming that you avoid any BA sectors, will be around GBP250 per adult. So, total GBP1557.50 one-way per adult.

Note that if you want to travel on Qatar, you should wait for QR920 to resume (W21 Season, so November is fine) and then look for availability out of Manchester rather than London, and you should find pockets. Note that this tends not to show reliably searching through ba.com - Cathay and American searches are more reliable, it seems.

This would, of course, depend on whether you feel confident enough to put a booking in now, and hope that you can then get MIQ availability to match when it's released. As time goes on, I'd be less confident about seats remaining available.

Final thing to mention would be to check all the terms and conditions of mileage puchase and transfer, including non-refundability of purchased miles and non-reversability of transfers.

Colossus Feb 25, 2021 12:29 pm


Originally Posted by continentalclub (Post 33061511)
Generally-speaking, unless you're absolutely rolling in Avios, I'd tend to consider them to be one of the poorer 'value' currencies for redemptions to New Zealand. Into Sydney, with a 2-4-1, it's just about justifiable, but still not great.

I'd therefore ask two things; firstly: do you have any American Express Membership Rewards (or could you acquire any), and/or secondly, do you have any American AAdvantage miles (or, again, could you acquire any)?

In the case of AmEx, conversion to Cathay Asia Miles is 1:1 and Cathay charges 85,000 miles in Business from the UK to New Zealand on its own metal, and 90,000 miles on partner airlines. So, 90,000 would get you on to Qatar via Doha. When you consider how many Avios are required (and tangentially that Membership Rewards to Avios is also 1:1), the Cathay route is hugely 'cheaper'.

Alternatively, AAdvantage charges 85,000 on a partner airline.

So, if you don't have any or access to Membership Rewards, and you don't have any or access to AAdvantage miles, then you could look at buying the latter.

At the moment, my account (and I say this as sometimes members get different pricing) shows that 110,000 miles will cost USD3547.50, which is roughly GBP2615 worst case.

However, that will generate a 66,000 mile bonus, so you'll get 176,000 miles credited, enough for two Business Class seats. Taxes, fees and charges, assuming that you avoid any BA sectors, will be around GBP250 per adult. So, total GBP1557.50 one-way per adult.

Note that if you want to travel on Qatar, you should wait for QR920 to resume (W21 Season, so November is fine) and then look for availability out of Manchester rather than London, and you should find pockets. Note that this tends not to show reliably searching through ba.com - Cathay and American searches are more reliable, it seems.

This would, of course, depend on whether you feel confident enough to put a booking in now, and hope that you can then get MIQ availability to match when it's released. As time goes on, I'd be less confident about seats remaining available.

Final thing to mention would be to check all the terms and conditions of mileage puchase and transfer, including non-refundability of purchased miles and non-reversability of transfers.

Thanks so much for the detailed information! I hadn’t considered Membership Rewards / AAdvantage, but will definitely look into. We currently hold neither - only Avios (just over 300K with potential to earn a bit more).

It just so happens I downgraded my BA Amex Premium card to the BA Amex classic as I didn’t see value in any more 2 for 1 vouchers (have 2 already) when we will not be in the country much longer. I was thinking to refer my wife to the BA Amex premium card for the referral and sign up bonuses, but it sounds like maybe we should consider the Amex Gold card? As a data point - when I originally called up to downgrade the BA Amex I was offered a 3 month additional Avios per £ spent (so 2.5 per £ total), so I didn’t follow through downgrading. I then considered again and called up 2 weeks later to downgrade, and for now at least I’m still earning the bonus Avios (2 per £ total).

I actually thought about it a bit more and agree the partner redemption value seems quite poor to NZ - and started looking at ex-Eu cash fares. It looks like we could get one way business on Qatar out of Stockholm for just under £2K. This obviously adds an extra variable into the mix, however I think Sweden should be ok to go to and perhaps stay overnight in before the flight, by Oct/Nov. A cash fare would obviously earn additional Avios, and we could use these on Qantas once back in NZ.

Did you suggest waiting for QR920 to resume to avoid the Brisbane technical stop and/or to get Q Suites? I was thinking about those factors too, as we found travelling in Q Suites with our infant back from South Africa recently very good with the privacy offered by the doors.

Thanks again continentalclub !

continentalclub Feb 25, 2021 1:30 pm


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33061652)
Thanks so much for the detailed information! I hadn’t considered Membership Rewards / AAdvantage, but will definitely look into. We currently hold neither - only Avios (just over 300K with potential to earn a bit more).

It just so happens I downgraded my BA Amex Premium card to the BA Amex classic as I didn’t see value in any more 2 for 1 vouchers (have 2 already) when we will not be in the country much longer. I was thinking to refer my wife to the BA Amex premium card for the referral and sign up bonuses, but it sounds like maybe we should consider the Amex Gold card? As a data point - when I originally called up to downgrade the BA Amex I was offered a 3 month additional Avios per £ spent (so 2.5 per £ total), so I didn’t follow through downgrading. I then considered again and called up 2 weeks later to downgrade, and for now at least I’m still earning the bonus Avios (2 per £ total).

I actually thought about it a bit more and agree the partner redemption value seems quite poor to NZ - and started looking at ex-Eu cash fares. It looks like we could get one way business on Qatar out of Stockholm for just under £2K. This obviously adds an extra variable into the mix, however I think Sweden should be ok to go to and perhaps stay overnight in before the flight, by Oct/Nov. A cash fare would obviously earn additional Avios, and we could use these on Qantas once back in NZ.

Did you suggest waiting for QR920 to resume to avoid the Brisbane technical stop and/or to get Q Suites? I was thinking about those factors too, as we found travelling in Q Suites with our infant back from South Africa recently very good with the privacy offered by the doors.

Thanks again continentalclub !

No problem. The suggestion to look for dates when QR920 is operating is mostly for availability, but also because of journey time.

The latter has an angle on comfort, of course, but if there’s also a pre-departure PCR test requirement, this may be time limited to such an extent that lengthier routings may be impractical.

The further mention in your reply to exEU might also be a challenge in this regard; the timings might mean you’d need to be in (say) Stockholm long enough to take a PCR test and receive the result prior to departure from there.

Personally, I think that we could be moving towards a certified second vaccine dose and a negative pre-departure PCR test being a requirement for more than a few countries, and New Zealand could be one of those. It’s only a hunch, but I think that it’s worth thinking about.

Mwenenzi Feb 25, 2021 1:38 pm

Getting award flights and MIQ slot to match will be hard and a risk. MIQ needs to be booked as soon a available.
A direct - single PNR UK to NZ, will be simpler and far less risk, than a separate UK-Sweden ticket and another ticket Sweden-NZ
Getting home need to take what is available. Takes travel time and is more risky considering cute routes. Cost is a secondary consideration:- not the main consideration.
QR have been very reliable for flights to AU & NZ. Many people only look at main popular airports (e.g. LHR SYD AKL). They do not consider less well known international airports( e.g. MAN BNE CHC)

Colossus Feb 25, 2021 4:33 pm


Originally Posted by continentalclub (Post 33061803)
No problem. The suggestion to look for dates when QR920 is operating is mostly for availability, but also because of journey time.

The latter has an angle on comfort, of course, but if there’s also a pre-departure PCR test requirement, this may be time limited to such an extent that lengthier routings may be impractical.

The further mention in your reply to exEU might also be a challenge in this regard; the timings might mean you’d need to be in (say) Stockholm long enough to take a PCR test and receive the result prior to departure from there.

Personally, I think that we could be moving towards a certified second vaccine dose and a negative pre-departure PCR test being a requirement for more than a few countries, and New Zealand could be one of those. It’s only a hunch, but I think that it’s worth thinking about.

Yeah, good point on the PCR. I thought most places normally state it being related to the time starting your trip (rather than final arrival) - although if overnighting in Stockholm, I guess this could be needed from Stockholm itself.

We will definitely stay in the UK until we get both doses of the vaccine. It will be interesting to see if the testing on top of that is still required.

Colossus Feb 25, 2021 4:39 pm


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 33061825)
Getting award flights and MIQ slot to match will be hard and a risk. MIQ needs to be booked as soon a available.
A direct - single PNR UK to NZ, will be simpler and far less risk, than a separate UK-Sweden ticket and another ticket Sweden-NZ
Getting home need to take what is available. Takes travel time and is more risky considering cute routes. Cost is a secondary consideration:- not the main consideration.
QR have been very reliable for flights to AU & NZ. Many people only look at main popular airports (e.g. LHR SYD AKL). They do not consider less well known international airports( e.g. MAN BNE CHC)

Thanks, good points made. However we are quite flexible, to the point of waiting into 2022 if needed. Particularly if there is an indication of MIQ getting relaxed. I’m not suggesting that will happen, however come June (when we’d be realistically looking to book MIQ places based on our plan A), we’ll have a clearer idea than now in regards to if the situation is getting better or worse with respect to travel into NZ.

I’ll definitely take a look also at other UK airports rather than London to see what the options are.

Strawb Feb 27, 2021 1:02 am


Originally Posted by Colossus (Post 33051537)
With respect to Qatar, we will struggle to have the points to do a single ticket Avios booking, as the Doha-Auckland leg in business alone effectively exhausts our balance.

Not necessarily. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the multi-carrier Avios (mileage) chart. The sweet spot here is that the multiplier for business class is only double, not triple, provided you include a minimum of two oneworld carriers (excluding BA metal) on your booking. Obviously New Zealand would fall into the 10,001 - 14,000 mileage bracket.

So you could, if Avios availability on all sectors for the number of seats required exists or opens up later, fly Qatar Q-Suites LHR-DOH-AKL, adding a Qantas sector from AKL-SYD for a later date in the future. You could choose to utilise the last sector or not. Total mileage for this routeing would be 13,657 (GCMAP), which is just under the maximum permitted mileage for this bracket. Cost would be 180,000 Avios per adult, infant under 2 would be 18,000 Avios. Might be worthwhile to invest in the 78,000 additional Avios points you need on top of your current balance.

Mwenenzi Feb 27, 2021 1:10 am


Originally Posted by Strawb (Post 33064869)
Not necessarily. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the multi-carrier Avios (mileage) chart. The sweet spot here is that the multiplier for business class is only double, not triple, provided you include a minimum of two oneworld carriers (excluding BA metal) on your booking. Obviously New Zealand would fall into the 10,001 - 14,000 mileage bracket.

So you could, if Avios availability on all sectors for the number of seats required exists or opens up later, fly Qatar Q-Suites LHR-DOH-AKL, adding a Qantas sector from DOH-SYD for a later date in the future. You could choose to utilise the last sector or not. Total mileage for this routeing would be 13,657, which is just under the maximum permitted mileage for this bracket. Cost would be 180,000 Avios per adult, infant under 2 would be 18,000 Avios. Might be worthwhile to invest in the 78,000 additional Avios points you need on top of your current balance.

The current QR flight is DOH-BNE-AKL, but DOH-AKL will be a single flight number.. No current non-stop DOH-AKL flight, Cannot see NZ Govt easing arrivals restrictions this calendar year, so expect it will stay that way
QF currently fly SYD-AKL-SYD 3 times a week. Likely to be that way until 31 October, unless a full trans Tasman bubble happens. But that is not looking good. NZ Govt do not seem keen on a full 2 way no quarantine TT travel.
A map from Great Circle Mapper - Great Circle Mapper

Strawb Feb 27, 2021 1:53 am


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 33064872)
The current QR flight is DOH-BNE-AKL, but DOH-AKL will be a single flight number.. No current non-stop DOH-AKL flight

​​​​​​​I read that Australia allows airside transits of 8hrs or less with no need for quarantine. Does that not work in this situation?

Mwenenzi Feb 27, 2021 9:41 am


Originally Posted by Strawb (Post 33064903)
​​​​​​​I read that Australia allows airside transits of 8hrs or less with no need for quarantine. Does that not work in this situation?

Yes (as posts above). Will work if all on a single ticket/PNR. Unlikely to work if separate tickets XXX-AU & AU-NZ.

Colossus Feb 28, 2021 12:08 pm


Originally Posted by Strawb (Post 33064869)
Not necessarily. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the multi-carrier Avios (mileage) chart. The sweet spot here is that the multiplier for business class is only double, not triple, provided you include a minimum of two oneworld carriers (excluding BA metal) on your booking. Obviously New Zealand would fall into the 10,001 - 14,000 mileage bracket.

So you could, if Avios availability on all sectors for the number of seats required exists or opens up later, fly Qatar Q-Suites LHR-DOH-AKL, adding a Qantas sector from AKL-SYD for a later date in the future. You could choose to utilise the last sector or not. Total mileage for this routeing would be 13,657 (GCMAP), which is just under the maximum permitted mileage for this bracket. Cost would be 180,000 Avios per adult, infant under 2 would be 18,000 Avios. Might be worthwhile to invest in the 78,000 additional Avios points you need on top of your current balance.

Thanks Strawb - I wasn’t aware of (or had forgotten) this. We can get some more Avios via a new card and referral, plus further spend. Will definitely look into that.


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