Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to the full original text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
Brexit and Covid pointers: see post 8
Click here for last year's (2020) thread.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
Brexit and Covid pointers: see post 8
Click here for last year's (2020) thread.
The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
#1396
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BAEC: Gold, HH:Diamond, Marriott: Platinum, IHG: Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 138
LGW cancellation
I’ve had a cancellation email for flight on 2/7/22 received today at 4am so technically 13 days prior to the flight. Not sure where they actually cancelled it though.
Two questions I have are:
Are BA going to be able to get out of this with the 2 week notification clause?
Are they going to get away with it being exceptional circumstances due to LGW cutting flight capacity?
Thanks
Two questions I have are:
Are BA going to be able to get out of this with the 2 week notification clause?
Are they going to get away with it being exceptional circumstances due to LGW cutting flight capacity?
Thanks
#1397
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,635
Yes, LGW cutting capacity is similar to ATC restrictions etc and to be considered extraordinary circumstances.
#1398
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 501
Hi,
Just looking for a bit of advice in case something goes wrong. I'm flying TLV-JFK via LHR return in a week. Say the first TLV-LHR leg gets cancelled, what would be my options? It's within 7 days of the flight. I get I would be eligible for a refund and €600 but it's imperative for me to get a flight. So:
Would BA be responsible for getting me on the first flight to LHR on another carrier or carrier of my choosing assuming the next BA flight would be 24h later? Or would it be first flight to JFK (end destination)? If so, would they match the class of booking I was supposed to be in to the new airline? Or economy only? Or no other flight at all and I have to wait for next BA one?
If I were to make it to LHR/JFK through BA's arrangements, would I be able to continue the rest of my itinerary? Or will it all be stopped due to initial flight cancellation? And same question if I made my own way to LHR/JFK and then tried to rejoin the BA itinerary.
Also, is it necessary or better to let BA make the arrangements or is it more likely to happen for me to make the arrangements and claim from BA later.
Sorry for the bunch of questions but they've already cancelled the morning flight and if I don't get to NY I'm a bit screwed to say the least.
Thanks in advance for any answers
Just looking for a bit of advice in case something goes wrong. I'm flying TLV-JFK via LHR return in a week. Say the first TLV-LHR leg gets cancelled, what would be my options? It's within 7 days of the flight. I get I would be eligible for a refund and €600 but it's imperative for me to get a flight. So:
Would BA be responsible for getting me on the first flight to LHR on another carrier or carrier of my choosing assuming the next BA flight would be 24h later? Or would it be first flight to JFK (end destination)? If so, would they match the class of booking I was supposed to be in to the new airline? Or economy only? Or no other flight at all and I have to wait for next BA one?
If I were to make it to LHR/JFK through BA's arrangements, would I be able to continue the rest of my itinerary? Or will it all be stopped due to initial flight cancellation? And same question if I made my own way to LHR/JFK and then tried to rejoin the BA itinerary.
Also, is it necessary or better to let BA make the arrangements or is it more likely to happen for me to make the arrangements and claim from BA later.
Sorry for the bunch of questions but they've already cancelled the morning flight and if I don't get to NY I'm a bit screwed to say the least.
Thanks in advance for any answers
#1399
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,474
Mostly if BA are going to cancel a flight, they would do so 2 weeks before departure for obvious reasons. So at this point you're into unlikely territory. At that point you are probably best to check this forum at the time, to see what the options are on other carriers. Broadly BA is supposed to rebook you on the next flight in the same cabin, if there is space, or to offer a refund. It doesn't have to be on another airline, but there is guidance that a same day flight is expected and that therefore could mean alternative airlines, including of course those direct services from TLV to NYC. BA contact centres can do that for same day cancellations. If there is a cancellation it would usually become evident from the departure of the LHR-TLV service, since it has to return to London at some point. I wouldn't overthink this, despite the importance of arriving as planned. There are too many variables and almost all of them are unlikely. Just have access to FT available, a list of BA contact centre telephone numbers and perhaps check the night before what plan B could look like in terms of alternative services.
#1401
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8
Advice on cancelled connecting flight BCN-LHR-KEF
My parents flew on the delayed Iberia-operated BA483 BCN-LHR last night 18/6 with an overnight connection to KEF on the BA800 today (19/6).
Shortly before boarding in BCN they received a cancellation notice for BA800.
BA has rebooked them on the BA800 on 21/6 but told they would only cover the cost of 1 night in a hotel... strange as their new flight is in 2 days.
I am assuming they are eligible for EC261/2004 compensation as well as being able to claim reasonable expenses (meals, hotel etc) - is that correct?
Shortly before boarding in BCN they received a cancellation notice for BA800.
BA has rebooked them on the BA800 on 21/6 but told they would only cover the cost of 1 night in a hotel... strange as their new flight is in 2 days.
I am assuming they are eligible for EC261/2004 compensation as well as being able to claim reasonable expenses (meals, hotel etc) - is that correct?
#1402
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,882
My parents flew on the delayed Iberia-operated BA483 BCN-LHR last night 18/6 with an overnight connection to KEF on the BA800 today (19/6).
Shortly before boarding in BCN they received a cancellation notice for BA800.
BA has rebooked them on the BA800 on 21/6 but told they would only cover the cost of 1 night in a hotel... strange as their new flight is in 2 days.
I am assuming they are eligible for EC261/2004 compensation as well as being able to claim reasonable expenses (meals, hotel etc) - is that correct?
Shortly before boarding in BCN they received a cancellation notice for BA800.
BA has rebooked them on the BA800 on 21/6 but told they would only cover the cost of 1 night in a hotel... strange as their new flight is in 2 days.
I am assuming they are eligible for EC261/2004 compensation as well as being able to claim reasonable expenses (meals, hotel etc) - is that correct?
#1403
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,015
ATC is provided by the authorities and BA is forced to use Her Majesty's ATC in the same way that BA is forced to use Her Majesty's police force if a passenger on board has to be arrested, i.e. BA has no choice.
BA are responsible for all necessary hotel nights plus subsistence and transport to and from the hotel. Depending on the reason for cancellation, compensation is also due. They may also be able to change their return date to allow them to enjoy their trip at the planned duration.
#1404
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,703
Is that really true? The airport is a contractor to the airline. BA chose to use LGW's airport services instead of using, say, the LHR or STN airport services. Shouldn't BA be responsible for the services provided by the airport in the same way that the airline is responsible for any delay caused by the luggage handlers loading the luggage too slowly or something?
ATC is provided by the authorities and BA is forced to use Her Majesty's ATC in the same way that BA is forced to use Her Majesty's police force if a passenger on board has to be arrested, i.e. BA has no choice.
ATC is provided by the authorities and BA is forced to use Her Majesty's ATC in the same way that BA is forced to use Her Majesty's police force if a passenger on board has to be arrested, i.e. BA has no choice.
If BA claims that the next available flight (direct or connecting) to KEF is two days later, do you really think that BA has taken all reasonable measures to avoid the delay? Compensation should be due.
EDIT: of course if BA are unwilling to offer other flights and only offer their own several days later you may feel you want to pay for an alternative yourself and claim the cost back from BA on the basis they were not offering you rebooking at the earliest opportunity under Art 8.
Last edited by KARFA; Jun 19, 2022 at 1:42 pm
#1405
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,474
When I look at those things where BA and other airlines are successfully able to claim extraordinary circumstances, I am aware of things like
- ATC going on strike and thus cutting airport throughput
- airports also cutting throughput due to bad weather
- bad weather, myriad (though this is a line of thought that says 2mm of snow in LHR isn't extraordinary)
- airports closing runways for repairs
- airports just closing for general refurbishments (Linate) leading to delays at the replacement (Malpensa)
- passenger actions / illness causing diversions
- animals on the runway
- protestors on the runway.
So if you calibrate LGW cutting what I think is 15% of flights on the worst days against the above list, and GAL telling airlines what that means for them, then I suspect BA will be off the hook here. By all means consider CEDR or MCOL and let us know how it goes, I just don't fancy your chances. As it happens, from what I can make out BA won't be too badly hit at LGW, the main victim will be easyJet. Usually there is also a provision that if some non UK airline only has one flight a day to and from an airport, this is allowed to survive without being cut.
- ATC going on strike and thus cutting airport throughput
- airports also cutting throughput due to bad weather
- bad weather, myriad (though this is a line of thought that says 2mm of snow in LHR isn't extraordinary)
- airports closing runways for repairs
- airports just closing for general refurbishments (Linate) leading to delays at the replacement (Malpensa)
- passenger actions / illness causing diversions
- animals on the runway
- protestors on the runway.
So if you calibrate LGW cutting what I think is 15% of flights on the worst days against the above list, and GAL telling airlines what that means for them, then I suspect BA will be off the hook here. By all means consider CEDR or MCOL and let us know how it goes, I just don't fancy your chances. As it happens, from what I can make out BA won't be too badly hit at LGW, the main victim will be easyJet. Usually there is also a provision that if some non UK airline only has one flight a day to and from an airport, this is allowed to survive without being cut.
#1406
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,556
Is that really true? The airport is a contractor to the airline. BA chose to use LGW's airport services instead of using, say, the LHR or STN airport services. Shouldn't BA be responsible for the services provided by the airport in the same way that the airline is responsible for any delay caused by the luggage handlers loading the luggage too slowly or something?
What I'd expect is for BA to start using this as an excuse for all their operational cancellations. Suddenly, 20 cancellations are all blamed on LGW, despite the airport only requesting 10 cancellations (as an example).
#1407
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,173
My flight PMI (Palma) to LGW at 19.30hrs on Monday 4th July was cancelled at 11.40 this morning. This is 14 days out. Is this in or out of scope ?
No Gatwick alternatives offered - however there are three flights into LHR that afternoon / evening
No Gatwick alternatives offered - however there are three flights into LHR that afternoon / evening
#1408
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,474
It's not under 14 days, it's over 14 days by my calculation, so that's out of scope for cancellation compensation. As things stand, LHR is probably a more reliable option than LGW.
#1409
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,173
Thanks CWS. Rather sneaky cancelling a gnats **** above 14 days…
#1410
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,703