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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Jan 3, 2021, 2:19 am
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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old May 8, 2022, 6:25 pm
  #1096  
 
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Im a new user, thanks for the reply. Suppose we put aside the codeshare aspect of friend's problem. So situation is passenger bought SEA-LHR in paid first on BA, BA canceled the flight with six weeks notice, available nonstop alternatives are BA flight in first 6 hours earlier, or Delta flight in business at the scheduled time. Is this then a standard EC261 downgrade? The only convenient/similarly-timed flight is one with a downgrade, so passenger gets 75% downgrade compensation per EC261, no matter how far in advance the airline cancels the flight -- because the downgrade benefit does not depend on amount of notice. RIght?

I share your intrigue about how downgrade rules apply to situations where the entity processing the downgrade is someone other than the operating air carrier. Maybe my friend should begin, then, by contacting BA. BA YouFirst is a better team to deal with than AA Reservations. BA may say that they won't do anything in response to their cancellation, and my friend can only deal with AA -- but if BA handles the cancellation and reaccomodation, then my friend would seem to be within the plain language of the EC261 downgrade rules per your quote.

My friend already flew the outbound segment, btw. All the discussion in this thread is about the return (back half of the rt). I think it's more common to talk to operating carrier when journey is underway, versus before journey begins, right?
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Old May 8, 2022, 10:02 pm
  #1097  
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Originally Posted by bedelman
Im a new user, thanks for the reply. Suppose we put aside the codeshare aspect of friend's problem. So situation is passenger bought SEA-LHR in paid first on BA, BA canceled the flight with six weeks notice, available nonstop alternatives are BA flight in first 6 hours earlier, or Delta flight in business at the scheduled time. Is this then a standard EC261 downgrade? The only convenient/similarly-timed flight is one with a downgrade, so passenger gets 75% downgrade compensation per EC261, no matter how far in advance the airline cancels the flight -- because the downgrade benefit does not depend on amount of notice. RIght?

I share your intrigue about how downgrade rules apply to situations where the entity processing the downgrade is someone other than the operating air carrier. Maybe my friend should begin, then, by contacting BA. BA YouFirst is a better team to deal with than AA Reservations. BA may say that they won't do anything in response to their cancellation, and my friend can only deal with AA -- but if BA handles the cancellation and reaccomodation, then my friend would seem to be within the plain language of the EC261 downgrade rules per your quote.

My friend already flew the outbound segment, btw. All the discussion in this thread is about the return (back half of the rt). I think it's more common to talk to operating carrier when journey is underway, versus before journey begins, right?
My reading of the text of EC261/2004 is that downgrade compensation is due regardless of how far in advance a passenger is downgraded. However, I infer from phrasing and context that the most common upgrade/downgrade case is being seated in a different class on the same flight you were originally confirmed on. I am not a lawyer.

Before you or your friend start getting too excited about downgrade compensation, you should try to get a confirmed seat on a new flight. It seems that you are only interested in non-stop flights in the evening, but SEA has a significant oneworld presence and AA/BA may offer you other options that depart around 7 pm (e.g. fly AS to another BA city, fly AA, etc.). Figure out how your friend is going to get home in a way that works, and then figure out how the airline is going to make you whole for not accommodating you as-booked.

By the book, the ticketing carrier (AA) is responsible for your rebooking up until the operating carrier takes control of the ticket at T-24. AA's order of preference for schedule change reroutings on a TATL itinerary is (1) AA and BA/IB/AY, then (2) oneworld (e.g. AS, AT, QR, but don't expect to go out of your way via Doha to get to London). The only time they regularly will rebook on non-oneworld for an advance schedule change is if they are suspending all flights to a destination, e.g. when JFK-DEL was delayed they offered rebooking on on BA, QR, UA, and EY. Per AA policy, DL is a last resort to only be used for day-of-departure IROPS rebooking when all other options are exhausted.

AA does not have a dedicated call center for international First. It's quite possible there is some AA/BA ticketing agreement that I don't know about that would let BA YouFirst help you with your ticket, so it's not a bad idea to give them a ring. As with many things on FlyerTalk, the worst thing that happens is that you are told no.
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Old May 8, 2022, 10:38 pm
  #1098  
 
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I arrived in Dubai this morning some 2 hours 54 minutes late so assume BA not liable to pay compensation, delay due to a sensor fault...


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Old May 9, 2022, 3:31 am
  #1099  
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Originally Posted by ademanuele
I arrived in Dubai this morning some 2 hours 54 minutes late so assume BA not liable to pay compensation, delay due to a sensor fault...
Correct
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Old May 9, 2022, 3:35 am
  #1100  
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Requesting to be rebooked to DL but with no F available, is very far from being an (invol) downgrade. Sorry, but I can't see any chance of getting a 75% refund of the relevant segment from BA on this one. You may contact AA for refund of fare difference.
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Old May 9, 2022, 5:22 am
  #1101  
 
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Quick question on definitions here for those more knowledgable than me:
BA cancelled BA190 AUS-LHR back in feb.
They finally got back to me saying they're willing to cover hotels but no compensation as it was weather-related (hard to believe since BA was the only flight cancelled and the plane landed in Austin on time). Furthermore, they gave me a piece of paper at the airport stating it was due to "Operational Constraints" which to me does not sound like the weather.

Can anyone more familiar with BA clarify if Operational constraints includes the weather or not?

Thanks
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Old May 9, 2022, 7:18 am
  #1102  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
If you are considering MCOL you don't need to do anything more. If you are considering CEDR, they need complaints to be either 8 weeks old or have a deadlock letter, so the usual phrase is "our answer will not change". CEDR in their first scan of a complaint do look for this. If you are near to 8 weeks then clearly it doesn't matter, but if it is much less than 8 weeks then you may be best off asking for that confirmation.
Quick update, created a case at the CEDR.

And created another claim at BA for an earlier fligth I had on the 10th of March to London City. Cancelled 7 days before departure and the departure went from 13:40 to 10:10. Lets see what happens.
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Old May 9, 2022, 9:13 am
  #1103  
 
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HI there all,
Your thoughts gratefully received on this one. My flight TLV-LHR was cancelled and I was put on a new flight the next day, 27 hours later. We were told at the airport that one of the pilots had tested positive in London so they had cancelled the flight. I submitted the request for the EU compensation and some expenses and I have just reveived a reply that the claim is being denied due to Covid, but they will grant the expenses. Seeing as the flight was oringinating in home base does the collective wisdom feel that I should push back / go to MCOL/CEDR / take my expenses and run? For anyone's interest in terms of timing - I sumbitted on the 3rd March, received numerous 'bear with us' emails and got the respnse mentioned above today. Thank you for your thoughts/experiences on this one, the compensation would be nice as missed a day of expensive university course and a long-planned family dinner in those 27 hours!
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Old May 9, 2022, 9:21 am
  #1104  
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Originally Posted by Tootall33
HI there all,
Your thoughts gratefully received on this one. My flight TLV-LHR was cancelled and I was put on a new flight the next day, 27 hours later. We were told at the airport that one of the pilots had tested positive in London so they had cancelled the flight. I submitted the request for the EU compensation and some expenses and I have just reveived a reply that the claim is being denied due to Covid, but they will grant the expenses. Seeing as the flight was oringinating in home base does the collective wisdom feel that I should push back / go to MCOL/CEDR / take my expenses and run? For anyone's interest in terms of timing - I sumbitted on the 3rd March, received numerous 'bear with us' emails and got the respnse mentioned above today. Thank you for your thoughts/experiences on this one, the compensation would be nice as missed a day of expensive university course and a long-planned family dinner in those 27 hours!
That sounds like the standard pushback. And while BA has a bit of a stronger argument here, nevertheless at their home base they should be able to find a pilot fit enough to fly. Maybe a bit of a delay but not for over 24 hours. Moreover there would have been other services that BA could have put you on but presumably chose not to deploy. So to my mind this one is on BA. Usual thing, ask BA to confirm that their answer will not change and then off to CEDR. If you have a UK base you can speed things up via MCOL.
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Old May 9, 2022, 9:26 am
  #1105  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
That sounds like the standard pushback. And while BA has a bit of a stronger argument here, nevertheless at their home base they should be able to find a pilot fit enough to fly. Maybe a bit of a delay but not for over 24 hours. Moreover there would have been other services that BA could have put you on but presumably chose not to deploy. So to my mind this one is on BA. Usual thing, ask BA to confirm that their answer will not change and then off to CEDR. If you have a UK base you can speed things up via MCOL.
Thank you - does one just reply to the email to ask if their answer will not change? Also is it possible they would rescind the expenses offer (It stated they had 'raised' a bank transfer) in this case - they were very generous as my hotel room was 450? (Apologies for appalling typos in previous post - clearly my excitement at getting a repsonse so relatively swiftly overcame me!)
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Old May 9, 2022, 9:34 am
  #1106  
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Originally Posted by Tootall33
Thank you - does one just reply to the email to ask if their answer will not change? Also is it possible they would rescind the expenses offer (It stated they had 'raised' a bank transfer) in this case - they were very generous as my hotel room was 450? (Apologies for appalling typos in previous post - clearly my excitement at getting a repsonse so relatively swiftly overcame me!)
Right to care is a legal requirement, so they can't take that away, though if that's for one night I would not have blamed them for capping the hotel fee.But yes. just reply via their email link to confirm their answer will not change. See other recent posts, it's not an unusual situation.
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Old May 9, 2022, 10:52 am
  #1107  
 
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I was happy to do an immediate turnaround LHR-LUX and LUX-LHR on separate tickets
when both flights were cancelled due to operational constraints five hours before the first departure.

Does that constitute two separate claims?

First ticket:
LHR-LUX was the second sector of an intra-European flight and should be a clear case of EC261.
Suggested rerouting was LCY LUX six hours later.

Second ticket:
LUX-LHR-USA.
LUX-LHR was cancelled, no alternative flight offered by BA, the remaining sectors remained unaffected.
Since I was already in London I just started the journey there.

BAs response to the LUX LHR claim:
Your claim has been refused because you reached your destination less than four hours after your scheduled arrival time.
Under EU legislation, were not liable to pay any compensation for this kind of situation.

In post 928 (referring to post 927) C-W-S seems to suggest otherwise.
The difference to post 927 lies in the first sector being cancelled rather than being rebooked on an earlier flight.

Would you file two separate claims?
(This might be a case of facing ethical reservations here.)

In general, does filing the claim with the GGL team rather than BAs online form make any difference?
Thanks for your take on this.
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Old May 9, 2022, 10:55 am
  #1108  
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
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Originally Posted by Tootall33
Thank you - does one just reply to the email to ask if their answer will not change? Also is it possible they would rescind the expenses offer (It stated they had 'raised' a bank transfer) in this case - they were very generous as my hotel room was 450? (Apologies for appalling typos in previous post - clearly my excitement at getting a repsonse so relatively swiftly overcame me!)
Originally Posted by Tootall33
HI there all,
Your thoughts gratefully received on this one. My flight TLV-LHR was cancelled and I was put on a new flight the next day, 27 hours later. We were told at the airport that one of the pilots had tested positive in London so they had cancelled the flight. I submitted the request for the EU compensation and some expenses and I have just reveived a reply that the claim is being denied due to Covid, but they will grant the expenses. Seeing as the flight was oringinating in home base does the collective wisdom feel that I should push back / go to MCOL/CEDR / take my expenses and run? For anyone's interest in terms of timing - I sumbitted on the 3rd March, received numerous 'bear with us' emails and got the respnse mentioned above today. Thank you for your thoughts/experiences on this one, the compensation would be nice as missed a day of expensive university course and a long-planned family dinner in those 27 hours!
I'm extrapolating that the highlighted (by me) word "We" means that it wasn't just you that got the hotel room, so perhaps the 450 wasn't that bad - depending on how many people make up "We"

Last edited by sayling; May 9, 2022 at 10:56 am Reason: Too many things quoted...
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Old May 9, 2022, 11:21 am
  #1109  
 
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I recognize that this has probably been answered but . . . I flew LAX-LHR-TLV on 20 April, BA268/BA167 with a 1 hour connection time. BA268 arrived on time but it took them 20-25 minutes just to connect the jet bridge. As a result, I (and a number of others) missed our connection. BA rebooked me on the next Virgin Atlantic flight, VS453. Our originally scheduled arrival time was 23:55 on 21 April, per FlightAware we actually landed at 04:25 on 22 April. Given the 4+ hour delay and the trip distance >3500km (just barely), it would appear that we are due compensation of 600 Euros (510 GBP?) per person.

If someone could confirm this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, BA never handed off our luggage to VS, nor did they put it on either the originally scheduled flight (understandably) but rather on BA167 a day later. As a result, it did not arrive in TLV until just after midnight on Saturday. There is no luggage delivery on Saturday in Israel and we would have had to wait until Sunday - at which point we were heading to a more remote destination in Israel, so delivery would not have been possible. As a result, I had to take a cab to and from TLV to pick up the luggage myself; round trip cost was ~$120. Is this something that I can claim as well?
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Old May 9, 2022, 11:39 am
  #1110  
 
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We was my colleague and I - different hotel rooms!
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