PlaneSpeaking

Sorry CWS, I just realised you didn’t mention which issue to select online for the CEDR complaint once I’ve heard back from BA, assuming you know of course. The choices are delay, cancellation etc but nothing for a downgrade so I assume I should select cancellation?

corporate-wage-slave

Yes, if there isn't "other" then cancellation is the nearest. CEDR does handle downgrades so I'm not sure why that isn't a choice.

PlaneSpeaking

Thank you sir!

BA-Flyer

Hello.

I had a booking made with Avios (the travel agency) using a Lloyds upgrade voucher. The flights were cancelled by BA. The T&Cs of the Lloyds voucher are that you can only use it if Avios seats are available. I am now being told that because of these conditions, I can only rebook my flights to a future date which has Avios availability. I am also told that because my original flights were off-peak, I have to pay the difference if I find availability on peak dates.
Some people are telling me this is not true, and that they have had no problem rebooking to dates which had cash fares available, but not Avios.
The FAQ below seems to suggest that Avios are correct, but I just wanted to check if there had been any policy changes due to Covid?

Thank you.

corporate-wage-slave

Just to elaborate the quote a bit more
- you have a more or less absolute right to go on the immediately next flight with a spare seat, without paying more. In normal circumstances this would be a day or two after the original date of travel. As far as I know Avios, the agency, can use the same Customer Guidance as BA, which in normal times is -3 days to +14 days, which I think meets the legal requirements of EC261 fairly generously.
- BA currrent guidance allows rebooking up to a year from ticket issue, this seems to me to be going beyond EC261, but nevertheless I think it should be available to Avios customers. It's possible the agent concerned is not aware of this guidance.
- In any event, from an EC261 perspective only, then if you want to move to another date altogether then BA can restrict that to days in which only Avios - off peak - are available. As I say the main guidance happens to go beyond this.
- I suspect it is legitimate for BA to offer peak days at the higher rates, but my caveat from the previous bullet applies.
- Depending on the exact circumstances you may have greater protection from contract law and the Consumer Rights Act if you can argue that travel is illegal (for example)

brimmers

I have a potentially complex case and would appreciate some guidance, as from reading this post and the regulations numerous times, I'm not sure of my options (and don't trust BA to give them to me).

The facts:
+ I booked 2x LHR-SEZ return tickets, outbound in CW, return in WT+, for April 2021 (for two other people, not me if that makes a difference)
+ These were reward flights, purchased in the half price avios sale (95k pts + ~1150GBP)
+ BA have since cancelled both legs of the journey
+ BA are also ceasing the LHR-SEZ route, from end of April
+ They have refused to offer a rebooking alternative

My understanding
+ I am entitled to reroute at my convenience "subject to availability"
+ I could reroute on an alternative airline for the next available flights

My questions
+ How does "subject to availability" play into it when BA have cancelled the route? There is no feasible BA flight pairing after the original dates
+ If I were to rebook on a different airline in similar classes, would BA be required to reimburse me? (assuming they decline to reroute on Qatar)
+ I can't find Premium Economy for that route, do I book the return in J, or book in Y and include a request for further compensation?

corporate-wage-slave

If BA have cancelled the route forever then normally they provide an alternative airline routing, and in this case it would be on the BA codeshares on Qatar. What should happen is that once your flight is cancelled you can rebook on to BA codeshares since they are marketed by BA. The confusion is that BA separately offers QR under prime, and these typically don't offer rebooking for Avios customers. However redemptions can be rebooked into BA marketed services, and that includes codeshares.. As far as EC261 is concerned, BA merely need to offer the next available service, you don't have an absolute right to being rebooked on another airline unless BA has no other BA flights. This is further complicated, if UK based and planning to go on holiday, since that's cannot be done, legally. So at this stage I would be looking to rebook for mid May onwards on Qatar in economy, then after travel claim the Mennens formula for the downgrade reimbursement.

If BA are not prepared to rebook on the codeshare, you better find out why the Principal Coronavirus Guidelines would not apply to you.

If you rebook yourself on another airline, you will have to proceed with some caution since it's by no means guaranteed that you will get refunded.

brimmers

Thanks - very helpful.

I think I'll persistently request they place them on a BA codeshare flight, and try and push the dates out as much as they'll allow. The Longhaul route suspensions - Customer Guidelines
suggest I should be able to reroute QR (although ±3 days which won't be possible given current law). Failing that, I'll rebook cheapest alternative biz class flights I can find and have a shot at MCOL. Flying in business was the main reason for booking (wedding gift), so think I'll need to deliver on that even if BA won't!

corporate-wage-slave

I seem not to have got a key point across very well: if you are on Prime flights it is indeed a restricted time window and/or not open to redemptions. But BA codeshares are BA marketed flights, and therefore the Principal Coronavirus Guidelines should give you 1 year from ticket issue, so long as you are on a BA - not QR - marketed flight. See the main Cancel/Rebook thread and wiki. Either way these will be QR operated flights, but that's not related to the point I am making.

brimmers

Thanks again, forgive me, but what do you mean by Prime flights in this situation? Having searched the forum, wiki, I'm confused as to how they apply in this case? Original flight was BA metal direct, and rebooking options are BA codeshares as you mentioned (rather than booking onto a QR prime flight).

In any case, having called BA a few times all the agents have refused any sort of rebooking even onto the BA codeshares - have emailed customer services to make the above point and will attempt the EU261 route if they're unable to provide any options.

Edit: Also, please let me know if I should move this to the mentioned advice thread; new here!

corporate-wage-slave

My apologies, I didn't notice you were new, there is another user-id which is similar and he would definitely know the difference between Prime and Codeshare. Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA forum brimmers.

If you are booked on a BA operated service, and you booked via BA.com you would be booked as (say) BA112. That is a prime service. If you then get moved to a Qatar service that can end up down one of two routes. Firstly you could booked on a BA codeshare on the aircraft, so typically Manage My Booking and other screens would say "QR123 sold as BA7321" or something similar, that indicates BA controls the inventory and it is therefore BA marketed. Alternatively BA couild put you on QR123 - no "Sold As" status - so you are rebooked in Prime. In that latter scenario you are on a QR marketed service and BA doesn't control the inventory.

For cash tickets, BA customer guidelines for this allow - within tight windows - for people to be rebooked on to prime flights. Typically, with QR and often with IB too, prime flights cannot be used if the tickets were redemptions. Other airlines, AA comes to mind, don't usually have this restriction on prime flights for redemptions. However if BA rebooked you on BA7321, it's still QR operated, but BA marketed, and the Principal Coronavirus Guidelines specifically allows this for redemptions. It's just that unless you get a clued up agent, you may get an agent seemingly unaware of this Principal guidelines, even though it's something like 10 months old now. Hence why I suggested asking specifically why the Principal Cornonavirus Guideline did not apply to your booking (and there may actually be a reason, there are a lot of details that get skated over here).

brimmers

Very thorough answer, thanks again.

I’ll try for a final time and quote the guidelines - if I don’t get a more thorough answer than “policy” then I’ll pursue the legal route.

Am I right in thinking that if I don’t claim for a refund on the flights I could do so if a MCOL claim was unsuccessful? Presumably there’s no time barring on receiving a full refund for cancelled flights?

corporate-wage-slave

So long as the flight remains cancelled and not rebooked, then yes. As you have worked out, if you claim a refund now, then it could be argued that it is game over, since a refund is a legitimate remedy to this situation. I suspect at MCOL level, if you were making a claim based on a blank refusal to rebook, then going for the retund under protest, then setting it against the costs of rebooking, particularly on BA flight numbers, would be seen favourably by a judge since you were mitigating the losses. The time limit is 6 years.

squawk

Hello, I would appreciate some advice from those more versed in EU261 than me please: does a cancellation to any flight on a booking (in this case the outbound) entitle you to rebook another flight (the return)?

Context: I was due to fly to Germany in early April on a route that has been suspended - in fact, both the domestic leg and international leg were cancelled. I sought a rebooking on Lufthansa for the leg to Germany, as was offered when I had the same situation in November. The SA contact centre said they 'weren't seeing' any options, so I asked via Twitter instead as they were the people who sorted out the situation in November. This yielded the more helpful information that the Lufthansa agreement expires at the end of March - so I asked if it were possible to bring forward my outbound by a few days, and have the second leg rebooked to Lufthansa which was not a problem.

At the same time, I realised that it would be of benefit to me for the return leg later in Summer to be moved a couple of weeks later and was told it is "worth asking us about your return flights before we reissue your ticket", so I gave the details of the return flights I would like. The response was that "This won't be a problem. We can change your return flight at the same time we change your outbound. Please note, you are only entitled to one free change when your flight is cancelled, so once you accept this change any further changes will be as per the rules of the ticket." All well and good, I thought...

I didn't hear anything overnight for 16 or so hours, so followed up - having gone through the whole "please provide your booking details" a different advisor responded with "We're sorry we'd missed your request to rebook your return flight to <date>. Since your return flight has not been cancelled, then you'd need to pay to move your <city> flight to <date>. Let us know if you'd like us to check the cost to do that for you." Although I've pushed back on this, I have got nowhere - I've been told that if my stay had been curtailed due to the cancellation of the initial flight, they would do this change for free, but as this is not the case it would have to be repriced by fare rules etc.

One of two things has happened and I have no clarity on them: Either a) I was badly advised by the initial advisor, who should not have offered free rebooking of the return leg for the later dates as I did not have this right; or b) I did have the right to ask for this under EU261, but because this wasn't processed at the same time as the change to the outbound, I've 'forfeited' the one free change.

If the former, that's fair enough and I can accept that (but they should not have said it would be possible to rebook for free). If the latter, I don't feel that I should be responsible for their mistake in not processing the details I provided. In either case it feels like there's been a mistake at their end.

Would anyone be able to clarify a) my rights in this situation? b) the best way forward?

Edit: just to clarify, I'm not looking for any kind of compensation, but I don't know whether this warrants me either sticking to my guns or just accepting them passing it to fares to find out how much a reprice of the return leg would be; and whether a complaint is in order to try and improve comms.

Thanks

DYKWIA

I'd ask them to review the recording of your original call where you were clearly given the option to change both flights. And it appears this was verbally confirmed.

They should the make the change for free.