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The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Jul 3, 22, 5:03 am   -   Wikipost
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Old Jan 5, 21, 3:42 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
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London to Dubai to London - Downgrade

Hello, had a Avios redemption for 3 passengers (with a 2-for-1 too) in First to Dubai. The return leg only had an equipment swap and First was removed. I was going to call BA To get my Avios back but remembered about waiting until after the flight to get compensation.

So the return flight happened and I sent off the details using BA.com about the downgrade.

I got an email back saying that I could take either a £700 eVoucher or £500 in cash for each passenger. Are these amounts correct or no? How do I check?

There was also no mention of the avois being returned too.

Thank you.
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Old Jan 5, 21, 3:47 am
  #17  
 
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Wrong thread - sorry!
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Old Jan 5, 21, 4:48 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by BlueHorizonUK View Post
I got an email back saying that I could take either a £700 eVoucher or £500 in cash for each passenger. Are these amounts correct or no? How do I check?
That's the Gordian Knot solution, and as the Archbishop of Canterbury put it in Henry V, it has many advantages but it's a bit of mystery where it came from.

The formal, correct, EC261 solution is in the wiki, the Mennens formula. You need to sit down with that and your e-ticket, taxes, fees and charges breakdown, and work out what you are really owed by way of reimbursement. Then work out whether you accept that offer from BA or pursue them for the full amount, wihch I suspect will require at least starting the CEDR process.
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Old Jan 5, 21, 4:58 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
That's the Gordian Knot solution, and as the Archbishop of Canterbury put it in Henry V, it has many advantages but it's a bit of mystery where it came from.

The formal, correct, EC261 solution is in the wiki, the Mennens formula. You need to sit down with that and your e-ticket, taxes, fees and charges breakdown, and work out what you are really owed by way of reimbursement. Then work out whether you accept that offer from BA or pursue them for the full amount, wihch I suspect will require at least starting the CEDR process.
Agree with what you say though, for 241 avios ticket, downgrade to J, 700 evoucher each sounds like quite a good deal to me tbh!
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Old Jan 5, 21, 5:46 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
That isn't my view, necessarily. See the relevant CEDR ruling towards the end of last year's thread which was very similar to your case.
Originally Posted by serfty View Post
Sometimes it can be hard to find specific posts in these (generally) fast moving threads, so here's a link:

2020 BA Compensation thread ...(all reasonable measures)
Thanks for that. Definitely useful and proves that it is a very similar case and hopefully I have merit to go with CEDR's arbitration
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Old Feb 1, 21, 12:44 pm
  #21  
 
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I have a slightly complex situation and would appreciate a view! Yes. I know. Don't fly to South Africa!!! However, assuming I can....

I was due to fly Amsterdam to Cape Town via Heathrow. Part paid cash and Avios for Business and upgraded the outbound Heathrow to Cape Town to First with a Gold Upgrade Voucher (no First cabin on the return). These flights have now been cancelled.

I was thinking of asking to start and finish at Heathrow (300 mile "rule") but as flights to Cape Town no longer have First ask to be routed via Johannesburg so I get First and then transfer on Comair. I am not too fussed about changing Amsterdam to Heathrow but a simpler option than ex-EU

I spoke to an agent who said they can only do that routing via Johannesburg within 3 days before or 14 days after the original flight and yes, they realise this is no point offering as there are no flights! So I can either take a voucher, refund or change the date for Heathrow to Cape Town direct.

Can I insist on a re-route to keep in First? Is that "comparable transport conditions" under EC/261? Flying at a time convenient to me?

If I take the Cape Town direct option then is that a downgrade and am I due any fare refund? If so, how do you work out the value of a one way downgrade refund for part cash, part Avios and a GUF?

Any suggestions welcome.
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Old Feb 1, 21, 5:18 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by BONDY View Post
Can I insist on a re-route to keep in First? Is that "comparable transport conditions" under EC/261? Flying at a time convenient to me?

If I take the Cape Town direct option then is that a downgrade and am I due any fare refund? If so, how do you work out the value of a one way downgrade refund for part cash, part Avios and a GUF?
You can't insist on JNB (since you aren't ticketed to JNB), and you can't insist on First either on one level, since there is provision in EC261 for downgrades, it's allowed and doesn't attract compensation, merely a reimbursement formula. See the Wiki for the Mennens formula to work it out, but also just consider recovering the GUF for use some other time. If this is in the near future then I doubt the service will restart, given the different vaccine situations in both countries.
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Old Feb 2, 21, 8:52 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
You can't insist on JNB (since you aren't ticketed to JNB), and you can't insist on First either on one level, since there is provision in EC261 for downgrades, it's allowed and doesn't attract compensation, merely a reimbursement formula. See the Wiki for the Mennens formula to work it out, but also just consider recovering the GUF for use some other time. If this is in the near future then I doubt the service will restart, given the different vaccine situations in both countries.
Thanks CWS. If you received a Pound for every bit of useful advice you have given on this Forum, from what I have read you would be quite a rich man!!!

Sadly, I suspect you are right on restarting service. This was originally departing mid March and I will be looking to shift to end of April departure and return late May. I can't go much further than that due to a West Coast US trip at the start of June (how is your crystal ball on that one?? Ha Ha).

I will ask for the "300 mile change" to depart Heathrow instead of Amsterdam and will take direct Business flights to Cape Town and, as you say, recover the GUF. Another to add to the pile!!!

Like many, I wish for a return to some sort of travel. I am in a worse position than many as my other half lives in Israel (used to come to UK regularly as the company she works for is here) so I have not seen her since 1st March. Hopefully one thing that will come from this is a greater appreciation of what we have (had) in our lives - like the freedoms and ability to go where we wanted when we wanted.

Stay safe!

BONDY
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Old Feb 2, 21, 9:06 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by BONDY View Post
I will ask for the "300 mile change" to depart Heathrow instead of Amsterdam and will take direct Business flights to Cape Town and, as you say, recover the GUF. Another to add to the pile!!!
Since BA has cancelled AMS-LHR then you can get the agent to strip that out of the booking quite easily, you will even get a modest refund on it (probably around the 30€ mark). That's not part of the 300 mile rule (DUS would be in the 300 mile rule as a better example). However that is on the basis that you would keep your longhaul flights at the same dates (ish). I would just leave it, there are so many moving parts, changing on a daily basis, you best wait until travel is plausible. If BA have cancelled flights then so long as the first sector is cancelled you don't need to rush to do something, other than a refund in your bank is better than a credit note backed by the bank of British Airways.
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Old Feb 2, 21, 10:43 am
  #25  
 
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Flight cancelled- compensation

Had a number of Longhaul BA flights cancelled with less than 14 days in 2021. What is BAs approach to Ec261 compensation?
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Old Feb 2, 21, 10:58 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Familyboy View Post
Had a number of Longhaul BA flights cancelled with less than 14 days in 2021. What is BAs approach to Ec261 compensation?
It depends on the details to some extent, and if you look upthread and at the end of the 2020 thread you will find some precedents. In essence BA won't be paying compensation, but if you take it to CEDR then you may be more successful depending on the details. If you were going to Dubai, then I wouldn't waste any time on it, BA will have a pretty solid argument that this is extraordinary circumstances around which no amount of reasonable measures would be able to resolve.
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Old Feb 2, 21, 11:01 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by BONDY View Post
Thanks CWS. If you received a Pound for every bit of useful advice you have given on this Forum, from what I have read you would be quite a rich man!!!
...
I would think that the difference (using this valuation) between useful c-w-s posts and all c-w-s posts it might be tricky to purchase a cup of coffee.

rb211.
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Old Feb 3, 21, 4:16 am
  #28  
 
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Rebooking extension period

Thanks for the EU261 context. If taking the rebooking option for an involuntary cancellation of an avios redemption I understand I can insist on any date where there are cash seats available. My issue is duration - is it a year from . Flights booked Oct 20 for Apr 21 (Orlando for Easter). Can I rebook up to Oct 21 or Apr 22 (-10 days). TBH I really want Feb 22 (Feb Half Term) so willing to try any options. Many thanks
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Old Feb 3, 21, 4:23 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by och.nat View Post
Thanks for the EU261 context. If taking the rebooking option for an involuntary cancellation of an avios redemption I understand I can insist on any date where there are cash seats available. My issue is duration - is it a year from . Flights booked Oct 20 for Apr 21 (Orlando for Easter). Can I rebook up to Oct 21 or Apr 22 (-10 days). TBH I really want Feb 22 (Feb Half Term) so willing to try any options. Many thanks
Hi. It would be a year from when booked, so in your case up to October 2021
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Old Feb 3, 21, 6:24 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Hi. It would be a year from when booked, so in your case up to October 2021
Thanks KARFA, and that's because of the BA T&Cs rather than anything in EU261? If so I may still try as I don't want to go any time before Oct 21 - and the ability to rebook (I used 50% avios sale and 2-4-1) for any time is a bit of a golden ticket! But I won't hold my breath!
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