max_bos

Yes, you understood correctly. After BA239 was canceled, we had two options for a replacement flight on the day after our original flight date: a morning flight operated by AA without the first cabin , or BA215 without availability in first. They have not offered flying via JFK, but I would not have accepted it regardless.

max_bos

CosmoCosmo

A further update to my earlier posts, #149 and #72. BA have responded with an offer to rebook me into the cabins of my original booking for new dates, which is what I wanted all along! All being well, I'll finally be going to DXB in October. Thanks for the advice, as always!

s1362083

I had a LGW-OPO return booked for mid November which got cancelled and moved to LHR. I called up last week and rebooked to LHR-LIS, OPO-LHR for some new dates in early October (LIS outbound because the OPO flight time was rubbish).

Anyway, today the return leg from OPO is cancelled and the only available BA flight from OPO is 2 days later. As I see it, my options are:
1.) Maintain the day of travel and ask to be rebooked on LIS-LHR BA flight
2.) Maintain the day of travel and route, I.e. ask to be rebooked on IB (OPO-MAD-LHR).
3.) Wait for direct OPO-LHR flight 2 days later. BA covers cost of 2 additional nights of accommodation (Ł200/night max) and meals (Ł50/person/day max) under duty of care.

Cancellation was 14+ days before departure, but I don't believe that matters here.

Am I on the right lines? I can't be bothered to pursue anything exotic like asking for rebooking on TP or U2.

I'm particularly keen to understand if anything is messed up on account of the date/routing change from original booking (Nov OPO return changed to Oct LIS/OPO open jaw). As far as I'm concerned, the rebooked flights were confirmed and the new cancellation triggers the same rights as it would had I booked the affected itinerary originally.

s1362083

OK so I've ended up option for a blend of option 2 and 3 based purely on convenience, and anything we can get back from BA would be a bonus. Now we are due to return OPO-MAD-LHR on the day after the date of the cancelled flight. The IB cabin luggage policy is more restrictive than BA, so we'll end up paying bag fees, plus seat selection doesn't seem to be free on IB for BA Golds, so that will be another additional cost. If after travel, I submit a claim for seat fees, bag fee (to travel with BA HBO compliant luggage) and 1 night of accommodation/meals... what are the odds of BA paying out?

marcusm1

Hi
Read the relevant topics but wanted to check I am right on the following:
Avios downgrade F-J on LHR-HKG in April. My understanding is 75% refund of Avios. Been getting runaround from various departments in BA. Latest response from them:

"When you're downgraded, the 75% fare refund is only applicable when you arrive for your flight on the day you're due to travel with a ticket for your booked cabin, but you're downgraded on the day. As your flight was cancelled and the downgrade occurred 29 days before you flew, the 75% fare refund isn't applicable as you were rebooked and ticketed to fly in Club World. In this situation, a refund between cabins would be applicable, but our Refunds team will need to check on this for you."

My understanding is that there is nothing in EU261 that lets them off the hook for notifying me in advance. Am I correct?

Thanks!

corporate-wage-slave

IB's cabin baggage policy may be different but the actuality of it at the gate is no different. I very much doubt you will end up paying luggage fees. Seat selection is also free (but awkward to do, try with Royal Jordanian's MMB if an agent can't do it for you). For the night of accommodation and meals, they should pay that, they may argue it if there was a same day service you could have used, but that's the exception, I don't expect a problem here.

corporate-wage-slave

Correct, and it's only payable after travel anyway. So it's usually counter-productive to have a discussion about this, especially before travel. This is a situation which may end up with CEDR, but BA have probably unintentionally weakened their own position because they no longer offer a full cancellation refund in this scenario, so it's not as though they are giving you the full cancellation options. But BA's position, as expressed by Customer Relations, is that this downgrade compensation is for short notice changes or at the gate. It just doesn't say that in the Regulation.

marcusm1

Thanks CWS
This was a flight taken in April and since then I've had two unhelpful responses from CS and a fob off response to a written letter. The response I pasted was through the online complaint form suggested by BA agent when I called.

I was aware not to bother before flying for your quoted reason but also F may have been put back it I had accepted the change which I did not.

So presuming now I can follow that up with a "you're wrong and reconsider"" message then presuming they stick to their guns next step will be CEDR

corporate-wage-slave

I think you best ask for a simple confirmation that their position will not change, so that you can take the matter to CEDR. It then passes out of the hands of CR and on to the paralegals in BA's legal team.

marcusm1

Ok will do thanks very much.

SK AAR

Your flight was cancelled and you were rebooked albeit on J/C. This has nothing to do with downgrade. You are entitled to the Avios difference between F and C/J.

rjn21

I just received BA's defence to an EC261 75% reimbursement from a downgrade from F to J.

Broadly, the defence is - the use of a GUF means that only a "business" ticket was purchased, and as I was then seated in business, no reimbursement of any amount is due.
My view is, I purchased an F ticket at Łx (which happens to be the price otherwise payable for a J ticket). I did not purchase a J ticket and then upgrade it to F using an upgrade (like an American Airlines SWU). My ticket clearly shows a first class ticket at Łx was purchased and paid for. Originally I was happy to get the GUF back but BA refused.

BA "denies I paid cash of Łx for the ticket". My Amex statement is clear, I did.

BA quote the EC guidelines about downgrading - "which applies to the class of carriage for which the ticket was purchased" - Exactly. I purchased an F ticket.
BA also claim that GUFs are "an advantage offered by a Frequent Flyer Program" and so they are excluded from EC261 by the interpretive Guidelines. That's about the only avenue I can see that may have potential. If BA wins, it means all GUFs are worthless and BA can downgrade GUF users at will, without any cash cost or obligation to reinstate the GUF whatsoever.

BA claim that no debt was created, so no interest can be claimed, or in the alternative, the statutory interest rate is excessive. Whilst the statutory interest rate may seem high in the current world, it's not set by me.

I'm happy to proceed to court as its clearly not vexatious litigation.

Billynomatesin3D

Have a look at EC261, Article 8 1b - the passenger is entitled to "re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity".

The passenger subsequently flew in a lower class and therefore is scoped in for a downgrade reimbursement.

KARFA

article 10 which relates to downgrading makes no reference to article 8 though. Obviously if the downgrade is a result of a cancellation of a flight that would then include entitlements under article 8.

Billynomatesin3D

You are right. I tried to post succintly - what I mean is that the initial cancellation provides an entitlement to be re-routed under comparable transport conditions. Post flight, if the passenger is placed into a class lower than the ticket was purchased for, Article 10.2 kicks in.

There is still a misunderstanding out there that cancellation, by the airline, ends the entitlement to travel in the booked class and thus only a fare difference is due. Sometimes a fare difference may be preferable (e.g. pro-rata short haul connector), other times applying the Mennen formula is more advantageous.

Have a good day.