rjn21

Thanks C-W-S your contributions to this board in all matters are extremely helpful. I'm just completing my skeleton - do you have any case name to say pre-notified downgrades are in scope? I can't find anything. Admittedly I cant find anything to say they are out of scope either and EC261, on its face, makes no distinction. Thanks in advance.

corporate-wage-slave

I have a feeling there was a senior or even CJEU case which made it clear that the separate provisions for denied boarding didn't just apply for oversales. Airlines have tried this argument with denied boarding, where they have tried, and failed, to keep the scope restricted to purely oversold cabins on the day of departure / at the gate. There is some wording in the Regulation telling airlines to seek volunteers, so perhaps implying that denied boarding is related specifically to that, but the courts don't go by that. In any case downgrading, as you say, simply says "places", there are no time scales or caveats. So the question is purely did the airline place you in a lower class, yes or no? You can also point to the over-riding premise of the regulation to protect the interests of air travellers rather than airlines. Finally the much commented upon interpretative guidelines:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...16)3502_en.pdf
makes it clear that airlines cannot downgrade people when re-routing them, something knowable in advance. Finally the Mennens case itself came about because Steef Mennens booked a Emirates flight, but Emirates then changed the aircraft after booking but before departure.

You could also make a reference to the Consumer Rights Act, in terms of the unbalanced contract - specifically not offering a full refund for the changed cabin.

JIMCHI

I hope this hasn't been answered already. In February I purchased 2 tickets in F PHX-LHR-HAM/SZG-LHR-PHX and used 220,750 Avios plus a Chase 2-4-1 voucher. In June BA downgraded us to CW. Are we entitled to compensation? Do I claim it now or after we complete the trip? Thanks for any advice.

DYKWIA

You can only claim after the flights. See the first post of this thread and the links for full details.

JIMCHI

Thanks. I read through the first posts and it seemed like the downgrade had to occur within 14 days of departure? Is that true?

KARFA

no. 14 days is only relevant for compensation where your flight is cancelled.

BA6501

I feel I should know this... but in the case of an IDB due to the airline assuming incorrect travel docs (even though they aren't...), and you end up travelling on the same flight 24 hours later. Does that mean you qualify for the IDB+delay compensation or just the IDB? Assuming the latter, but wanted to check...

KARFA

IDB only.

max_bos

Hello Everyone,
Could I get some advice on the following case:
We booked our BOS-FSC-BOS trip in Club in January this year. The trip included a 7-day layover in London for the outbound leg:
BA0212 British Airways | Club World | Confirmed 6 Aug 2021 19:10 Logan International (MA) Terminal E 7 Aug 2021 06:45 Heathrow (London) Terminal 5
BA0340 British Airways | Club Europe | Confirmed 14 Aug 2021 10:25 Heathrow (London) Terminal 5 14 Aug 2021 13:55 Figari
BA0339 British Airways | Club Europe | Confirmed 21 Aug 2021 14:45 Figari 21 Aug 2021 16:20 Heathrow (London) Terminal 5
BA0215 British Airways | Club World | Confirmed 21 Aug 2021 18:30 Heathrow (London) Terminal 5 21 Aug 2021 21:00 Logan International (MA) Terminal E

Around April we were then moved from BA215 to BA239 on August 21 because the BA215 had a new departure time, and our inbound connection became invalid. Then in July BA239 was canceled, and we were moved to AA109 operating on 22 August (the following day). That also eliminated our Avios upgrade to 1st
Question #1: Should I be able to claim the cost of hotel at LHR when a schedule change more than 14 days from departure forces an overnight connection?

BA canceled flights to and form Figari Corsica around July 22 (BA339/340). We accepted replacement flights to/from BIA (Bastia, Corsica). On July 28, BA canceled Bastia flights too! This was 9 days before our BOS-LHR departure, and we had no flexibility to change dates in Corsica due to our accommodation booking having become non-refundable and non-changeable. BA half-heartedly offered flights on LH via FRA with bad connections and a late arrival in BIA. I replied that we needed to get to our original destination (FSC) since driving from BIA to Porto Vecchio would add at least 2 hours to the travel time. They tried to add a flight on LX via ZRH, but were unsuccessful because ZRH-FSC leg was operated by a low-cost subsidiary of LX (WK). In the end, BA just removed the legs to/from Corsica, and we purchased tickets from LX ourselves. I have a pending refund for the Corsica flights from BA, but given that the flights were priced as BOS-FSC and FSC-BOS, it is very hard to know the true cost of the LHR-FSC legs, and I am I expecting that they will try their best to give us next to nothing.
Question #2: Should I be able to get BA to pay for our tickets on LX if the refund amount does not cover them? We booked economy, and the total cost per person was about $400 USD.
Question #3: BA denied my EC261 claim stating that their cancelation notification occurred more than 14 days before the affected flight was scheduled to depart on August 14. I have read the regulations, and I understand BA does have a point here. I do, however, wonder whether it makes sense to appeal on the grounds that the ticket was priced and sold as BOS-FSC, and the BOS-LHR leg was starting in less than 14 days after the cancelation. Any opinions? If the chances are slim, I'd rather not waste my time.

If these cancellations happened a few months before, I would definitely let it go because I understand that BA is truly hurting these days. However, they were trying to chase revenue, and they chose to wait until just a few weeks before canceling. We got stung not just by the cost of flights on LX, but also by having to pay fare difference to transfer my children's flight to BIA after FSC was cancelled. Their tickets were issued on AA stock, and BA cancelation supposedly only gave us a right to a refund, and not reaccommodation (there is no AA code on BA's Corsica flights). Of course, these replacement BIA flights were canceled 4 days later. What a nightmare! One of us is gold on BA, the other - silver.

Thank you,
max_bos

RG1X

Quick one (I hope)... does anyone have any input on how EC261/2004 applies to holiday packages with BA? Specifically in this case an F to J downgrade on a flight (+car) from Heathrow to Austin.

Initially I assumed would automatically be refunded a meaningful amount if I took the flight, but a discussion earlier has left me unsure as to what my rights actually are. It seems that things may not be so simple for bookings that aren't flight only. Do I have any rights at all here beyond being able to cancel?

Assuming I have the same rights (75% of flight value for long haul), does anyone know a way of workout out the fare breakdown? I've done the Finnair ticket receipt thing but I'll be honest, I'm struggling to make heads / tails of the numbers I'm seeing in there.

Given the choice, I'd rather fly in first (even if it means flying to a nearby airport like DFW or IAH) as the booking was made partly to get my status back to Gold ready for a (hopefully) busy year of travel in 2022. But obviously I'd be stupid to ignore the possibility of a significant refund that could potentially pay for another trip anyway, especially with the current offer of double tier points.

max_bos

BA has refunded 476 USD per passenger for the chopped-off LHR-FSC-LHR flights. I am satisfied with the outcome, and I will not pursue my claim further.

PANK KP

I received a reply from BA:
"Thanks for contacting us about your claim for EU compensation. We're sorry it was necessary to change the departure time of your flight from London Heathrow to Chicago. I can appreciate how inconvenient this was for you, especially as this meant to arrived at Dallas Fort Worth later than planned.BA0297 was originally planned to depart at 16:00 local time on 09 August. On 30 July, the departure time was changed to 16:30 local time. I'm sorry you weren't informed of the change.

Due to the schedule change, you had insufficient time in which to connect to your flight to Dallas, which is why you were rerouted to travel via Los Angeles.

Although the departure time of BA0297 was changed, the flight was neither delayed nor cancelled, therefore we are not liable to pay compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004."

Any thoughts on whether I should continue to push for this claim?

corporate-wage-slave

They are clearly just saying "no" to everything, Iberia style. This reply is in direct contradiction to the wording of the Regulation, which is intended to protect passengers rather than airline. I'm very surprised they didn't try the best defence that they have, namely extraordinary circumstances, and instead just ignored the Regulation's clear wording on this issue. I wouldn't waste any effort. Ask them whether this is their final answer in order for you to take it to CEDR. You could give a detailed answer now, but it's not going to be worth the effort. With any luck a paralegal will intercept the case early into CEDR.

max_bos

Hey C-W-S,

Thanks for all your contributions on this thread and your previous advice for me personally! Could I ask your opinion about claiming compensation for a downgrade from First to CW due to the cancelation of BA239? My full story is in my post from August 30. I decided not not pursue any further claims for a cancellation of out flights to and from Corsica, but I am wondering if we are entitled to a compensation due to the Mennens rule for a downgraded LHR-BOS flight. It was a revenue ticket booked in J upgraded to First with Avios. The Avios were fully refunded. Am I right that we are entitled to a 75% refund of the J ticket for the affected leg? The downgrade happened on July 2 (50 days before the affected flight was supposed to depart). The flight was sold as FSC-LHR-BOS, but the Cosrica-to-London segment was removed later due to the BA's cancellation. When we took the replacement flight on August 22, it was originating in LHR after we self-connected from FSC on August 21.

Thank you,
max_bos

corporate-wage-slave

If I have understood correctly, your original flight was cancelled, you therefore moved to another flight, presumably with a different flight number, and in so doing accepted CW since there was no First. If that is the case then I can't see you being successful in claiming anything beyond the fare difference (refund of Avios essentially). You would have had a refund option, which wouldn't have been available to a straight equipment swap, and you could presumably have opted for a JFK routing to retain First. If you stayed in the original service or BA had done the rebooking and placed you in CW without you choosing it, then that's another matter. So there are some details which matter here.