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Your guide to spending Avios | 2021 edition

Your guide to spending Avios | 2021 edition

Old Mar 14, 21, 2:19 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by andymcdonnell View Post
Hmm thanks

Itll be a package booking DUB-LHR-MEX. The price Trailfinders is quoting in business is about Ä1850pp whereas BA / BA hols is +Ä3000
If you are looking at club world then usually fare class won't be the issue. From the post I referenced:
Note that for EuroTraveller and World Traveller bookings, O, Q and G fares cannot be upgraded.
With Trailfinders the issue may be the fare may be the fare itself, that is, a consolidator or negotiated fare that is not eligible to be upgraded. Another issue may be the DUB-LHR flight. To UuA a TA booking:
The flights must be BA-coded and on BA metal. For example, a QF-codeshare on BA metal will not be eligible. If your booking includes non-BA flights, it will not be eligible for UuA
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Old Mar 14, 21, 2:38 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by jerry a. laska View Post
If you are looking at club world then usually fare class won't be the issue. From the post I referenced:

With Trailfinders the issue may be the fare may be the fare itself, that is, a consolidator or negotiated fare that is not eligible to be upgraded. Another issue may be the DUB-LHR flight. To UuA a TA booking:
Its all BA codes on BA metal on the outbound but on the inbound (which Iím not trying to upgrade) itís BA codes on AA metal
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Old Mar 14, 21, 3:16 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by andymcdonnell View Post
Its all BA codes on BA metal on the outbound but on the inbound (which Iím not trying to upgrade) itís BA codes on AA metal
Based upon my own experience, I doubt you would be successful then. Good luck.
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Old Mar 14, 21, 3:46 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by andymcdonnell View Post
Its all BA codes on BA metal on the outbound but on the inbound (which Iím not trying to upgrade) itís BA codes on AA metal
Originally Posted by jerry a. laska View Post
Based upon my own experience, I doubt you would be successful then. Good luck.
I've managed to upgrade the 2 BA legs of a LON-LAS-JFK-LON from J to F which I'd initially booked through Propeller. Call, I think you might be alright.
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Old Mar 22, 21, 9:11 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Current rates for redemption flights

https://prospelicious.com/wp-content...2/Spend_BA.png
Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Additional price points
The RFS product has evolved in recent years and now includes variety of additional price points, allowing you to progressively reduce or increase the amount of cash paid by offsetting the amount of Avios redeemed. These are included in the following tariff - the base rate is emboldened. Cash amounts are shown in Sterling but fixed amounts can also be priced in USD, EURO, and South African Rand. Note, RFS fares on Comair flights do have higher cash components where the base rate for economy class is £40 (500R) and £70 (900R) for business class.

https://prospelicious.com/wp-content.../12/RFS_SH.png
I wonder whether the time has come for a re-write of the short-haul (Zones 1-3) sections of these tables?

There has been a series of stealth price increases, disguised by the introduction of “additional price points” allowing different combinations of Avios and cash for award tickets. When these additional price points, there was much discussion trying to work out the different value implications of the alternatives. However, although the discussion illustrated the opacity of what was being done, it has only relatively recently become clear that the opacity itself was used to bring in price increases.

Four things have happened, the last two consequential on the first two.

First, the “base price” in the number of Avios required for short-haul awards has changed. Formerly, it was set at the level that would require payment of a standard RFS fee of £17.50 (economy) or £25.00 (Club). The cash element payable could be adjusted up or down from the standard RFS fee by decreasing or increasing the number of Avios payable.

However, the “base price” has now been changed so that it is the number of Avios required for paying an RFS fee of £0.50. The cash element payable can still be adjusted up by decreasing the number of Avios payable, but the base price is now the maximum number of Avios.

Second, there has been a recent unannounced increase in short-haul award prices by a flat 750 Avios (see Rogue RFS pricing or a stealth increase? [Avios increase confirmed]).

The combination of these two changes means that the old and new base award figures are as follows.
Code:
Base awards
      Old     New    |  Old     New    |   Old    New    |  Old     New
Zone  Y off   Y off  |  Y peak  Y peak |   J off  J off  |  J peak  J peak
1     4,000   9,250  |   4,500   9,750 |   7,750  15,000 |   9,000  16,250
2     6,500  11,750  |   7,500  12,750 |  12,750  20,000 |  15,000  22,250
3     8,500  13,750  |  10,000  15,250 |  17,000  24,250 |  20,000  27,250
.
Old base award figures attracted an £17.50 economy / £25.00 Club RFS fee as standard; new base award figures attract a standard £0.50 RFS fee. If you are only doing a standard redemption, these changes therefore only have a limited effect. There are, however, knock-on effects for other aspects of awards.

Third, a consequence of the change of base price is that the price of a short-haul UuA has increased by 2,000 Avios. This is because the price of a UuA is calculated as the difference between the Avios required for an award in the cabin paid for and in the cabin upgraded to. The number of Avios used in the calculation is the base award for each cabin. But because the base award has changed from the £17.50 / £25.00 level to the £0.50 level, the numbers of Avios used for the UuA calculation are now different.

The old short-haul UuA table (economy to Club) was therefore as follows.
Code:
Old UuA calculation
Zone  J off   Y off UuA off  |  J peak   Y peak UuA peak
1     7,750   4,000   3,750  |   9,000    4,500    4,500
2    12,750   6,500   6,250  |  15,000    7,500    7,500
3    17,000   8,500   8,500  |  10,000   20,000   10,000
The corresponding new UuA table is as follows.
Code:
New UuA calculation
Zone  J off   Y off UuA off  |  J peak   Y peak UuA peak
1    15,000   9,250   5,750  |  16,250    9,750    6,500
2    20,000  11,750   8,250  |  22,250   12,750    9,500
3    24,250  13,750  10,500  |  27,250   15,250   12,000
Fourth, it used to be the case that if the actual TFC on an award route were less than the standard RFS fee of £17.50 / £25.00, then you only paid the actual TFC. Thus, for example, TFC for LUX-LHR one-way are £6.40; to fly on an RFS award in Club, you would only pay £6.40 rather than the standard RFS fee of £25.00.

In a sense, this feature lives on in this provision in the RFS Conditions of Use:
10. In the unlikely event that the RFS Flat Cash Price is higher than the applicable taxes, fees and charges on a booking, the Eligible Member will pay the actual taxes, fees and charges applicable to the booking.
However, setting the “RFS Flat Cash Price” to £0.50 in effect strips this condition of any useful effect. Although this wasn’t part of the FT guide, it is another part of the stealth increases that have been brought in under the guise of “additional price points”.

The successful introduction of these increases does, I suppose, show what can be done by making the audience look the other way, as good magicians do. It did a better job than deploying the “enhancements” word.

No doubt there is scope for corresponding stealth increases on the long-haul routes to which RFS pricing now applies, but more work would have to be done to identify what is happening there.
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Last edited by Globaliser; Mar 31, 21 at 8:26 am
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Old Mar 22, 21, 10:38 am
  #66  
 
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I'm rather confused by this, beside the fact that awards have increased by 750 points for short haul.
I looked at a LHR-GVA today, which used to be 4000 avios one-way and a few £ in fees.

Now if I book with cash it is: 23 + 39.67 taxes = total of 62.67£
If I book with avios, it's 9250 avios + 39.67.£

I don't understand why 9250 instead of 4000 (or 4750). Am I missing something ? If I want to stick to a spending of 4750 avios, I must pay 56.70 in cash which is only 6£ less than the fare above.
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Old Mar 22, 21, 10:50 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by flyasia View Post
Am I missing something ?
It sounds like one thing is that you haven't collected at least 1 Avios in the last year, so that you don't qualify for RFS pricing when looking at an award ticket.

If you do qualify for RFS pricing, you should see a price of 9,250 Avios + £0.50 (and other options).
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Old Mar 22, 21, 11:02 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
It sounds like one thing is that you haven't collected at least 1 Avios in the last year, so that you don't qualify for RFS pricing when looking at an award ticket.

If you do qualify for RFS pricing, you should see a price of 9,250 Avios + £0.50 (and other options).
Ha of course ! I didn't think about that one. Thanks for the answer.
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Old Mar 23, 21, 1:02 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by flyasia View Post
I looked at a LHR-GVA today, which used to be 4000 avios one-way and a few £ in fees.

Now if I book with cash it is: 23 + 39.67 taxes = total of 62.67£
If I book with avios, it's 9250 avios + 39.67.£
To add to the points in my longer post above, having looked more closely at this and the thread in which this post appears - Rogue RFS pricing or a stealth increase? [Avios increase confirmed]:

Fifth, there has been a significant stealth increase in Avios prices for those who do not qualify for RFS pricing.

When RFS was introduced, those who did not qualify for RFS pricing simply continued to pay the actual TFC on top of the base price. So for this LHR-GVA off-peak example, it would have been 4,000 Avios + £17.50 for someone who qualified for RFS, or 4,000 Avios + £39.67 for someone who did not.

If the only change had been the extra 750 Avios increase, these amounts would now be 4,750 Avios + £17.50 for someone who qualifies for RFS, or 4,750 Avios + £39.67 for someone who does not.

For someone who qualifies for RFS, those are still the amounts required. But for someone who does not, that ticket is now 9,250 Avios + £39.67 - or, possibly, 4,750 Avios + £59.67 (see Rogue RFS pricing or a stealth increase? [Avios increase confirmed]).

In other words, a non-RFS member who pays the TFC component plus the corresponding Avios has seen the Avios price increase as follows:
Code:
Non-RFS Avios price, plus TFC
      Old     New    |  Old     New     |   Old     New    |  Old     New
Zone  Y off   Y off  |  Y peak  Y peak  |   J off   J off  |  J peak  J peak
1     4,000   9,250  |   4,500   9,750  |   7,750  15,000  |   9,000  16,250
2     6,500  11,750  |   7,500  12,750  |  12,750  20,000  |  15,000  22,250
3     8,500  13,750  |  10,000  15,250  |  17,000  24,250  |  20,000  27,250
.
.
.
.
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Old Mar 29, 21, 8:35 am
  #70  
 
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Changing return reward after outbound is flown

My research (this wiki & Chase/Visa site companion ticket rules) is hitting the proverbial brick wall, so...



Re: changing the date of the return portion of a BA/Chase(Visa card) reward flight, which was booked using a voucher...



After traveling the outbound, can you change the return date?

If you can change the return date, is seat selection limited to availability of reward seats on the new date of change?

Can you make the date change and choose a different class from the original booking?

For example, if you originally were booked in First, but only Club reward seats are available on the new date, is this choice/downgrade allowed?

Will you be charged £35 change fee per passenger?

Last edited by BritBesotted; Mar 29, 21 at 8:51 am Reason: Spelling error
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Old Apr 3, 21, 8:37 pm
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Originally Posted by BritBesotted View Post
My research (this wiki & Chase/Visa site companion ticket rules) is hitting the proverbial brick wall, so...

Re: changing the date of the return portion of a BA/Chase(Visa card) reward flight, which was booked using a voucher...

After traveling the outbound, can you change the return date?

If you can change the return date, is seat selection limited to availability of reward seats on the new date of change?

Can you make the date change and choose a different class from the original booking?

For example, if you originally were booked in First, but only Club reward seats are available on the new date, is this choice/downgrade allowed?

Will you be charged £35 change fee per passenger?
I don't consider myself an expert, but as no-one else has replied..... IF the rules are the same for Chase voucher in the US and Amex vouchers in the UK, then I believe the following is the case:

Yes you can change the return date after flying the outbound but you will need Avios availability for the new date

You can downgrade the flight (so first to club) but you won't get any Avios or money back. I don't know whether you could upgrade, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't subject to paying extra Avios and money. You'd need Avios availability for the upgraded or downgraded class.

I would expect the £35 fee to be charged.
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Old Apr 3, 21, 8:39 pm
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......

Last edited by louie-m; Apr 3, 21 at 8:40 pm Reason: Double posted
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Old Apr 4, 21, 9:30 am
  #73  
 
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At long last - a reply! 😉 Thanks so much, Louie-m! Your advice sounds logical and as expected. Until the seasoned veterans weigh in - paging CWS/Karfa, et all - I’ll consider myself well advised.
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Old Apr 8, 21, 3:05 am
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Upgrading a PE AA seat using Avios

Hi

Can anyone confirm what fare bucket a AA PE seat should be in to allow me to upgrade to Business using Avios please?

Whenever I look at flights that have award availability it seems that PE seat is very cheap but in a fare class that might not be upgradable.

If phoning BA to book and upgrade can I ask to be booked on the correct code to ensure the upgrade to the reward seat?
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Old Apr 9, 21, 11:39 am
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Jimbojumbo View Post
Hi

Can anyone confirm what fare bucket a AA PE seat should be in to allow me to upgrade to Business using Avios please?

Whenever I look at flights that have award availability it seems that PE seat is very cheap but in a fare class that might not be upgradable.

If phoning BA to book and upgrade can I ask to be booked on the correct code to ensure the upgrade to the reward seat?
I think it has to be W which tends to be very expensive
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