Denied boarding, tricky one
#91
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: Executive Club
Posts: 1,115
That's why it's not uncommon to have business meeting rooms in airline lounges.
When choosing a supplier that your business will have some dependence on, call me old fashioned, but there's nothing like seeing the whites of the eyes, even if pressing the flesh is currently no longer a thing. Let me explain...
IME, you only make the mistake of flying blind on a new supplier once, and for me it was an expensive mistake about ten years ago. It'll come as no surprise that suppliers have quite the propensity to over promise and under deliver, sometimes devastatingly so. For example, non delivery on a six month lead time item isn't going to be cheap to rectify either in financial terms or in terms of reputational damage of non-delivery. You can wrap it up in legal remedies all you like, but that's still no guarantee of a smooth transaction. In manufacturing in my particular line, no contract supplier is going to offer any form of indemnity anyway, they tend to offer relatively meaningless gestures after a screw up that don't come anywhere near to the actual cost.
In short it's about mutual trust, and reducing financial & reputational risk. I find that a lot more clarity comes out in the wash in a face-to-face compared to a phone call, in terms of clarity of detail, expectation management, as well as detecting some of those rather more elusive traits.
When choosing a supplier that your business will have some dependence on, call me old fashioned, but there's nothing like seeing the whites of the eyes, even if pressing the flesh is currently no longer a thing. Let me explain...
IME, you only make the mistake of flying blind on a new supplier once, and for me it was an expensive mistake about ten years ago. It'll come as no surprise that suppliers have quite the propensity to over promise and under deliver, sometimes devastatingly so. For example, non delivery on a six month lead time item isn't going to be cheap to rectify either in financial terms or in terms of reputational damage of non-delivery. You can wrap it up in legal remedies all you like, but that's still no guarantee of a smooth transaction. In manufacturing in my particular line, no contract supplier is going to offer any form of indemnity anyway, they tend to offer relatively meaningless gestures after a screw up that don't come anywhere near to the actual cost.
In short it's about mutual trust, and reducing financial & reputational risk. I find that a lot more clarity comes out in the wash in a face-to-face compared to a phone call, in terms of clarity of detail, expectation management, as well as detecting some of those rather more elusive traits.
#92
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AAdvantage Asia Miles Air China
Posts: 870
As an aside I am surprised the HK supplier even agreed to the meeting in the first place, unless it is a very significant contract indeed.
Hong Kong has implemented a policy that all inbound passengers except from China, Macau, and Taiwan must do a mandatory 14 day quarantine in an hotel room (no home quarantines anymore) without being allowed out of said room. It is proving a successful disincentive to travel.
Hong Kong has implemented a policy that all inbound passengers except from China, Macau, and Taiwan must do a mandatory 14 day quarantine in an hotel room (no home quarantines anymore) without being allowed out of said room. It is proving a successful disincentive to travel.
#93
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Am I missing something here? Your supplier was arriving just after 11pm and your return flight was departing just after 1am. By the time your supplier got off their plane and passed through immigation and security and then walked to find you it would be, say 11.45pm. And boarding for your return flight would start at 12.15am. So you were intending to fly for over 12 hours just for a maximum 30 minutes meeting? If this is the case then it just seems weird.
#94
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 319
My heart really does sink when I read posts like this. Travelling 1/4 of the way around the world in the middle of a pandemic, in UK lockdown, for a few hours in Doha airport?
I know I’m on a frequent flyer site, but I am still shocked. Regardless of the value of the contract/what value the OP puts on the meeting, the world really does need better than this.
I know I’m on a frequent flyer site, but I am still shocked. Regardless of the value of the contract/what value the OP puts on the meeting, the world really does need better than this.
#95
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 319
And to the OP - there is no harm in making a complaint - you may find a sympathetic CS advisor who provides some relief beyond what they would normally do. I just wouldn’t expect anything.
#96
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
I gather that was the idea: they'd have a confab airside, in the lounge.
JessicaB's point was that with all the faff surrounding arrivals, they'd likely have well under an hour together. And that short period vulnerable to collapse under delays.
JessicaB's point was that with all the faff surrounding arrivals, they'd likely have well under an hour together. And that short period vulnerable to collapse under delays.
#98
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sticks
Programs: VS FC Gold, BA EC Gold, Amex Centurion, EK Gold, ex-G-ATVK driver
Posts: 1,827
Am I missing something here? Your supplier was arriving just after 11pm and your return flight was departing just after 1am. By the time your supplier got off their plane and passed through immigation and security and then walked to find you it would be, say 11.45pm. And boarding for your return flight would start at 12.15am. So you were intending to fly for over 12 hours just for a maximum 30 minutes meeting? If this is the case then it just seems weird.
#99
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sticks
Programs: VS FC Gold, BA EC Gold, Amex Centurion, EK Gold, ex-G-ATVK driver
Posts: 1,827
I'm much more au fait with the setup in DOH and the logistics of holding airside meetings, but I've never been to the new IST.
#100
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sticks
Programs: VS FC Gold, BA EC Gold, Amex Centurion, EK Gold, ex-G-ATVK driver
Posts: 1,827
#101
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
What I meant is that you could have met in a nice hotel by the water the next morning for breakfast. Much nicer than airside at DOH in the middle of the night!
#102
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,936
A visit to Turkey would mean self isolation for 14 days on return. If going to DOH and returning no self isolation is required.
#103
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: Executive Club
Posts: 1,115
That's the point of doing the meeting airside in the transit area, there is no immigration, just security, you'll be in the lounge for the meeting within 20-30 minutes of landing at Qatar even with a bus transfer, so 23:30. For my 01:40 departure, I'd be leaving the lounge at 01:00 or so, so that's an hour and a half meeting.
#104
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sticks
Programs: VS FC Gold, BA EC Gold, Amex Centurion, EK Gold, ex-G-ATVK driver
Posts: 1,827
If I may, I'll just reiterate my thought process on this, as there seems to be some hyperbole and misinterpretation.
Historically I have done many long haul round trips where I don't exit the airport secure area, in particular at KUL, HKG, BKK and DOH, certainly well over a dozen times in total, and it's never even crossed my mind that this was treated as anything other than a transit because no immigration formalities have been used.
I now understand that a back-to-back is technically not treated as "transit", so I've learned something new.
That last point is absolutely key: a number of posts have assumed that I knew that, which was not the case, and I still consider it be a reasonable assumption based on my own practical experiences. I now accept that my understanding, while empirically working well in the past, turned out to be technically incorrect. A case of mismatch between causation and correlation if you like.
For the avoidance of doubt, I was never disrespectful to anyone, far from it in fact: I found the the Qatar check in staff were particularly helpful even though after 90 minutes it didn't work out in my favour, as well as the BA representative at the airport who I requested to kindly log that I was at the airport and intended to fly (i.e., not simply a no show). Once back home, I did question how fairly the case was being treated when a BA representative made a series of incorrect assumptions over the phone regarding my travel, and which BA have subsequently accepted as such. I don't think it's the rep's fault, more to do with the corporate culture overlords nowadays who've make it so. Irrespective, it doesn't look like I'll be gaining much out BA anyway.
I hope that clears that up. We all make genuine mistakes, and I've now accepted it was my mistake. Hopefully I can gain some opportunity of redemption, although this has been a tough crowd.
Historically I have done many long haul round trips where I don't exit the airport secure area, in particular at KUL, HKG, BKK and DOH, certainly well over a dozen times in total, and it's never even crossed my mind that this was treated as anything other than a transit because no immigration formalities have been used.
I now understand that a back-to-back is technically not treated as "transit", so I've learned something new.
That last point is absolutely key: a number of posts have assumed that I knew that, which was not the case, and I still consider it be a reasonable assumption based on my own practical experiences. I now accept that my understanding, while empirically working well in the past, turned out to be technically incorrect. A case of mismatch between causation and correlation if you like.
For the avoidance of doubt, I was never disrespectful to anyone, far from it in fact: I found the the Qatar check in staff were particularly helpful even though after 90 minutes it didn't work out in my favour, as well as the BA representative at the airport who I requested to kindly log that I was at the airport and intended to fly (i.e., not simply a no show). Once back home, I did question how fairly the case was being treated when a BA representative made a series of incorrect assumptions over the phone regarding my travel, and which BA have subsequently accepted as such. I don't think it's the rep's fault, more to do with the corporate culture overlords nowadays who've make it so. Irrespective, it doesn't look like I'll be gaining much out BA anyway.
I hope that clears that up. We all make genuine mistakes, and I've now accepted it was my mistake. Hopefully I can gain some opportunity of redemption, although this has been a tough crowd.
#105
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In the sticks
Programs: VS FC Gold, BA EC Gold, Amex Centurion, EK Gold, ex-G-ATVK driver
Posts: 1,827
I would go as far as to say that by flying such a long way with all the current travel restrictions, having a brief meeting with someone airside and then flying straight back you could alert the suspicions of the authorities.
As has been said already, this may seem normal behaviour on Flyertalk
but to the outside world this would seem very strange given the pandemic.
If this was for the supply of safety of life equipment and infrastructure, would you have a different opinion?