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Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 32851442)
Because Qatar allows visa-free/visa on arrival (not sure about the exact arrangement) for UK Passport holders. That's why you have no problem at all.
I simply can't see what your complaint can accomplish. Qatari official information has been very clear on this - citizens and residents only for now. And you are neither. If I was on the other side of the complaint, I would make sure you be banned for life. |
This isn't a "tricky" situation. There is no world of "immediate turnarounds" or "staying airside" outside of Flyertalk. You are flying somewhere or you aren't. You have the documents or you don't.
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Originally Posted by itsmeitisss
(Post 32851570)
I hope you aren't working in any customer facing role. For physical or verbal abuse I'd agree, but for simply attempting what the OP is attempting? Ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 32851531)
Sure. It is COVID-19 time anyway. Right or wrong - their jobs are at risk anyway.
Booking a flight to DOH as the final destination is a clear, objective intent that OP seeks to enter Qatar, regardless OP's actual plan. Even assuming OP would be there to transit with proof of connecting flights, OP must still adhere the transit formality. Now Qatar is a persona non grata country for everyone else except its citizens and residents. You can argue what you want on behalf of OP. But based on OP's own words, everything is pretty much conclusive. You might think the OP has a weak case, but he has acted in good faith and the outcome here could be quite harsh. He deserves some sympathy. |
Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 32851442)
If I was on the other side of the complaint, I would make sure you be banned for life.
I agree the complaint should be dismissed. |
Originally Posted by cauchy
(Post 32851598)
The OP's case might well turn on the specific wording of Qatar's COVID rules. IF the rule was phrased as "no entry for non-Qatari nationals/residents...but this does not affect passengers who remain airside / don't leave the airport" then the OP could have a case. Equally, if the rules were set out as "customers in transit to a third country are allowed airside" then the OP is screwed as there are only 2 countries involved in his trip. Perhaps the OP can contact the Qatari embassy and see if they have a copy of the rules?
You might think the OP has a weak case, but he has acted in good faith and the outcome here could be quite harsh. He deserves some sympathy. |
Originally Posted by cauchy
(Post 32851598)
The OP's case might well turn on the specific wording of Qatar's COVID rules. IF the rule was phrased as "no entry for non-Qatari nationals/residents...but this does not affect passengers who remain airside / don't leave the airport" then the OP could have a case. Equally, if the rules were set out as "customers in transit to a third country are allowed airside" then the OP is screwed as there are only 2 countries involved in his trip. Perhaps the OP can contact the Qatari embassy and see if they have a copy of the rules?
You might think the OP has a weak case, but he has acted in good faith and the outcome here could be quite harsh. He deserves some sympathy. |
Originally Posted by nufnuf77
(Post 32850454)
We had similar issue on Thursday, LHR-DOH-VIE. we were denied boarding. I already filed a claim for the costs, expenses, etc... 7 days before MCOL. On friday i got email saying our documents are in fact OK and to ask BA to reissue the ticket for today or tomorrow. BA wont reissue because we were denied boarding and the policies changed since when we were booked.
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77
(Post 32851031)
Thanks,
Despite the disappointment, we are off on LHR-CDG-FRA-ZRH-GRU-BOG on Friday for 10days,(to keep ourselves entertained), with a team offsite in Cartagena over the weekend. It has been a while since i did LX F so will be nice to retry it after LH pulled most of 747s out of the skies. |
Originally Posted by cauchy
(Post 32851598)
The OP's case might well turn on the specific wording of Qatar's COVID rules. IF the rule was phrased as "no entry for non-Qatari nationals/residents...but this does not affect passengers who remain airside / don't leave the airport" then the OP could have a case.Equally, if the rules were set out as "customers in transit to a third country are allowed airside" then the OP is screwed as there are only 2 countries involved in his trip. Perhaps the OP can contact the Qatari embassy and see if they have a copy of the rules?
https://www.visitqatar.qa/en/plan-your-trip/travel-tips
Originally Posted by cauchy
(Post 32851598)
You might think the OP has a weak case, but he has acted in good faith and the outcome here could be quite harsh. He deserves some sympathy
Originally Posted by Howard Long
(Post 32850368)
Despite the fact that I had no intention of entering Qatar (I also presented a paper copy of my airside transit hotel booking), I was denied boarding, as I was told I would still need to be granted immigration status for travel despite remaining in the transit area.
If OP deserves sympathy, QR would have let OP to board and complete the trip as-is. This is the sympathy OP should get and yet OP did not have it.
Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
(Post 32851755)
Greetings (from the USA) my dear friend. Get your EC261 claim in, you were IDBd - and QR’s own reply confirms it. Spend that €1200 wisely - Felice Navidad (or is Mele Kalikimaka more appropriate? :)).
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Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 32851786)
My friend - do you mind educating me how EC261 applies here? At the minimum, OP was IDBed because of OP's failure to comply necessary immigration rules.
Howard Long (OP) who had LHR-DOH-LHR booked and was denied as he did not have any right to enter Qatar and it was not a transit. nufnuf77, whom Tobias-UK was replying to, and had LHR-DOH-VIE booked and was denied boarding since QR staff incorrectly believed he did not have a right to enter Austria, a clear mistake in his case and therefore gives rise to a claim for denied boarding under Art. 4 EC261. |
This thread reminds me of US and EU passport users who thought they could use airside TWOV to do cheap trips to/from China only to find out that a roundtrip ticket to and from China even when heading back on the same plane as the one coming in -- and having no need to even go landside for any reason -- wasn't going to fly with the airline and not necessarily reliably even with the Chinese personnel manning airside TWOV stations.
If you're going to try to game around a restriction, then note there are risks of facing an unwelcome situation when the game is being done on a basis that is short of adequate information and experience to avoid an unwelcome surprise on the intended day of travel. |
Isn't this a clear case of fraud that they are refusing to refund you your miles? If you were a no show that would be one thing but they wouldn't let you go so no trip, no miles. I'd personally be looking into a civil suit and contacting the government to get your miles back.
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Originally Posted by FlyEndeavorAir
(Post 32852189)
Isn't this a clear case of fraud that they are refusing to refund you your miles? If you were a no show that would be one thing but they wouldn't let you go so no trip, no miles. I'd personally be looking into a civil suit and contacting the government to get your miles back.
It is the passenger’s responsibility to ensure they are permitted to fly to their destination. |
I'm sorry to hear about this headache you had to go through, but as others already said here, why choose Qatar as a stopover in the first place?
If possible, I'm definitely avoiding going there and doing business with Qatar Airways in the future. |
From a philosophical point of view, while the OP did not intend to legally enter Qatar, the purpose of his trip was not for transit. It was to go to Qatar for a meeting to be held on Qatari territory. So if a visa would normally be required and I were in charge of a country's visa policy, I would require a visa for such a trip even if not entering the country - which is much like China's TWOV policy.
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Originally Posted by GumshoeW12
(Post 32852231)
Assuming you are referring to the OP, and assuming they were correctly denied boarding, no it isn’t.
It is the passenger’s responsibility to ensure they are permitted to fly to their destination. |
Originally Posted by Howard Long
(Post 32851188)
FWIW I travelled Swiss longhaul F to/from HKG in March on a newly refurbed A340-600, just as the Covid shutters were coming down, https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32168464-post471.html, a brief synopsis is below: spoiler alert; a great place to sleep, dining not quite so much, but I am sure it'll be far better than BA F at the moment..
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Originally Posted by Gabbr
(Post 32852235)
I'm sorry to hear about this headache you had to go through, but as others already said here, why choose Qatar as a stopover in the first place?
If possible, I'm definitely avoiding going there and doing business with Qatar Airways in the future. Qatar wasnt just a stopover , it was the destination |
Originally Posted by cauchy
(Post 32851413)
Would two one-way tickets work: the first LHR-DOH-IST or wherever would let you in, and a second DOH-LHR? Obviously, you chuck the DOH-IST leg.
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 32852288)
Why would you avoid doing business with QR based on it correctly denying travel to a passenger due to not having the required documents to be allowed to travel ?
Qatar wasnt just a stopover , it was the destination But I will avoid QR as much as possible as they have the worst customer service, just take a look at the complaint thread in their forum and also the reviews all over the net. Some say the on-board service is good/ok, but customer service for me is more important as we all know how much of a nuisance airlines can be when they don't treat their customers properly. |
OP should have booked LHR x/DOH MLE x/DOH LHR instead (provided he has a negative COVID-19 RT-PCR test 96 hours prior to departure).
The x/ on the ticket's fare calculation line is very important. |
Originally Posted by Howard Long
(Post 32850559)
If that were the case, I'd have no quibble. Unfortunately, I'm neither being offered offered the Avios back nor a voucher. I'd prefer the Avios, but I'd settle for a voucher.
Similar thing here, a couple of hours sitting about before getting the no-can-do. The BA rep on the phone when I returned home made a number of wild assumptions about the trip before I was allowed to explain, particularly that she was saying it was a one way ticket, when it wasn't, it was on the same PNR, and that it was the "next day" I was returning, well yes, it was... arriving at 5pm and leaving at 1:40am, not at all an unusual transit time for DOH. That was what frustrated me the most to be honest, the BA rep jumped to several conclusions without trying to understand the situation. Truth be told, I've done similar trips outside of covid many times where I never step landside, including three or four times to DOH, in fact DOH is one of the better airports for doing it as you can transfer through security without even having a boarding pass. I guess I'll file a complaint and see where that gets me! When you miss a flight on your itinerary it will cancel other flights in itinerary or in your scenario airport may even delete the outbound flights. So its likely that when you called the BA agent was simply reacting to what the itinerary looked like. When I retrieve a PNR i would say something like “I can see you are travelling to X” to help identify its the correct PNR. Also if a flight is missed either you NOSHOW or you are denied boarding then in contact centres we arent able to rebook and fare rules apply. In this scenario the options would have been to change ticket the ticket or take a voucher. The important thing to note is that either option needs to be done before check in closed for the first flight. |
Originally Posted by LondonElite
(Post 32852289)
Originally Posted by cauchy
Would two one-way tickets work: the first LHR-DOH-IST or wherever would let you in, and a second DOH-LHR? Obviously, you chuck the DOH-IST leg.
Being booked on an "impossible itinerary" when using separately ticketed PNRs isn't commonly used by QR to cancel one or both flights/itineraries. I am pretty certain that a UK passport user who is admissible to Turkey would be able to do just what cauchy covered without any cancellation being done by QR just because it may be perceived as an "impossible itinerary". |
Originally Posted by LondonElite
(Post 32852286)
You mean a 340-300? LX doesn’t have the 340-600 in their fleet.
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Originally Posted by Anonba
(Post 32852365)
Just wanted to clear some things up about this.
When you miss a flight on your itinerary it will cancel other flights in itinerary or in your scenario airport may even delete the outbound flights. So its likely that when you called the BA agent was simply reacting to what the itinerary looked like. When I retrieve a PNR i would say something like “I can see you are travelling to X” to help identify its the correct PNR. Also if a flight is missed either you NOSHOW or you are denied boarding then in contact centres we arent able to rebook and fare rules apply. In this scenario the options would have been to change ticket the ticket or take a voucher. The important thing to note is that either option needs to be done before check in closed for the first flight. I didn't get the chance to change the ticket or take a voucher before check in closed, I was still sitting at check in waiting for a decision, but QR were offering to put me on the next flight an hour or so later if necessary at that time. I received a fairly standard reply yesterday surprisingly quickly from the complaints dept, mostly a rubber stamped one, but to be fair it was with an acceptance from BA that the evidence showed I wouldn't be going through through immigration, and that entry requirements can be difficult to interpret: 90 minutes for trained airline staff in my case. Of course, nothing offered other than a refund of taxes etc, no Avios or voucher. I now strongly suspect I'm flogging a dead horse. |
Originally Posted by LondonElite
(Post 32852289)
I suspect QR system would detect an impossible itinerary and cancel one or both flights. You can’t be travelling to IST and LHR at the same time.
Even if there was such mechanism OP could have booked a TK flight instead. I am not sure if a transit on two tickets is allowed via DOH currently, but if it is they would have admitted him onto the flight. He could have then cancelled the TK flight and flown the initial itinerary. Presumably he would then have violated some Qatari immigration law and might have been flagged upon boarding his return. So presumably not the best idea. Even easier would been to book LON-DOH-FRA and he would have been fine. Funny how inconsistent rules are... |
Originally Posted by Freddorick
(Post 32852569)
I don’t think so actually. I occasionally had two conflicting bookings (not with QR but other carriers) mostly stemming from the fact that some ticket was non refundable and I just booked something else.
Even if there was such mechanism OP could have booked a TK flight instead. I am not sure if a transit on two tickets is allowed via DOH currently, but if it is they would have admitted him onto the flight. He could have then cancelled the TK flight and flown the initial itinerary. Presumably he would then have violated some Qatari immigration law and might have been flagged upon boarding his return. So presumably not the best idea. Even easier would been to book LON-DOH-FRA and he would have been fine. Funny how inconsistent rules are... * I know QR is accepting two separate tickets on QR but not sure about a QR flight followed by a flight operated by a different airline. BA is one of the generous airlines that allows people that have a transfer to a third country on a separate ticket on a different airline but most other airlines are not generous like BA accepting passengers who doesn't meet the criteria for their final destination on their first ticket and have an onward flight to a third country. By the way, LHR-DOH-FRA or something similar would have worked without issues. |
Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852591)
BA is one of the generous airlines that allows people that have a transfer to a third country on a separate ticket on a different airline but most other airlines are not generous like BA accepting passengers who doesn't meet the criteria for their final destination on their first ticket and have an onward flight to a third country.
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Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852591)
* I know QR is accepting two separate tickets on QR but not sure about a QR flight followed by a flight operated by a different airline.
Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852591)
By the way, LHR-DOH-FRA or something similar would have worked without issues.
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
(Post 32852600)
I'm not sure what you mean by this? BA doesn't decide UK entry procedures.
If you are flying: LHR-DOH with BA followed by a separate ticket with Ethiopian to Tanzania, BA would allow you to board the LHR-DOH flight if you show your onward DOH-ADD-DAR ticket with ET as UK citizens are allowed to enter Tanzania at the moment. If you're flying IST-DOH with TK followed by a separate ticket with ET to Tanzania, TK would not allow you to board the IST-DOH flight stating that the passenger is not eligible to enter Qatar which is his final destination on his ticket with TK. Similar situation for Russia; Pre-COVID, on BA services to DME, people were able to fly LHR-DME without a Russian visa by showing an onward separate S7 ticket to the check-in and gate agent whereas some airlines like TK would not allow a UK citizen to board a flight to Russia without a visa unless the passenger has a connection to a third country on the same ticket. |
Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852656)
Sorry for the confusion; what I meant was;
If you are flying: LHR-DOH with BA followed by a separate ticket with Ethiopian to Tanzania, BA would allow you to board the LHR-DOH flight if you show your onward DOH-ADD-DAR ticket with ET as UK citizens are allowed to enter Tanzania at the moment. If you're flying IST-DOH with TK followed by a separate ticket with ET to Tanzania, TK would not allow you to board the IST-DOH flight stating that the passenger is not eligible to enter Qatar which is his final destination on his ticket with TK. Similar situation for Russia; Pre-COVID, on BA services to DME, people were able to fly LHR-DME without a Russian visa by showing an onward separate S7 ticket to the check-in and gate agent whereas some airlines like TK would not allow a UK citizen to board a flight to Russia without a visa unless the passenger has a connection to a third country on the same ticket. Now that you mention it, I once did a TWOV in PVG departing from BEG with QR and continuing to HKG. The BEG agent needed a lot of convincing to issue boarding passes but ultimately did (after checking with QR supervisor on the ground and DOH office). I figured it might have just been the case of a third party checkin agent that likely was not very familiar with timatic/ TWOV in China. |
Originally Posted by Freddorick
(Post 32852741)
So you saying BA agents tend to be more confident? Good to know, I wasn’t aware, although I am guessing that might depend on the individual agent/ supervisor? Any other airlines that are more accommodating in your experience?
Now that you mention it, I once did a TWOV in PVG departing from BEG with QR and continuing to HKG. The BEG agent needed a lot of convincing to issue boarding passes but ultimately did (after checking with QR supervisor on the ground and DOH office). I figured it might have just been the case of a third party checkin agent that likely was not very familiar with timatic/ TWOV in China. |
Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852835)
Until today, I never took the risk of two separate tickets where I am not admitted into the final destination of the first ticket but from my experience from the forum reading other people's posts, I could tell that the US3 is also lenient. Not sure about other airlines.
The best fun itinerary was LHR-FRA-PVG-ZRH-LHR without visa under the 6 day TWOV rule. |
Originally Posted by nufnuf77
(Post 32852920)
Pre COVID i never had issues with any visa when on separate tickets, provided luggage wasnt involved (and it never was involved!)
The best fun itinerary was LHR-FRA-PVG-ZRH-LHR without visa under the 6 day TWOV rule. By the way, I remember that someone told me that WOW Air ( RIP ) denied boarding a mutual friend ( a friend of a friend ) when flying KEF-LGW ( WW ) and LGW-IST ( TK ) on separate tickets because the passengers didn't have the correct documents to enter to the UK ( UK visa in this case ). I don't know if checked baggage was involved or not and I don't know the logic why they didn't attempt transferring from a Schengen country rather than the UK where they wouldn't had any issues. I also don't have information on how did they get to Iceland on their outbound from Turkey. My guess is that they bought the cheapest combination on Skyscanner or somewhere similar as IST-KEF fares are generally the double price compared to transferring somewhere in central Europe on separate tickets. |
Originally Posted by ISTFlyer
(Post 32852656)
Sorry for the confusion; what I meant was;
If you are flying: LHR-DOH with BA followed by a separate ticket with Ethiopian to Tanzania, BA would allow you to board the LHR-DOH flight if you show your onward DOH-ADD-DAR ticket with ET as UK citizens are allowed to enter Tanzania at the moment. If you're flying IST-DOH with TK followed by a separate ticket with ET to Tanzania, TK would not allow you to board the IST-DOH flight stating that the passenger is not eligible to enter Qatar which is his final destination on his ticket with TK. Similar situation for Russia; Pre-COVID, on BA services to DME, people were able to fly LHR-DME without a Russian visa by showing an onward separate S7 ticket to the check-in and gate agent whereas some airlines like TK would not allow a UK citizen to board a flight to Russia without a visa unless the passenger has a connection to a third country on the same ticket. |
However this ends up for me (and my expectations have been re-managed due to this forum), there have been a number of interesting tales, which demonstrate the complexities and downfalls of some arrangements.
When I booked the flights on Thursday, and then on Sunday morning at the airport, I didn't consider there was anything particularly to think about, I'd already looked through what appeared to me to be reasonable due diligence. The take away from all this is down to this one technicality: doing a back-to-back isn't treated the same as being a transit passenger. Interestingly I haven't yet heard anything from my supplier, I texted and emailed her to explain the situation before she checked in to her flight to DOH, but have yet to receive a response. My lesson of the past 48 hours is that hindsight is a truly wonderful thing! |
Haha, maybe she was denied boarding as well for trying to pull the same caper! ;)
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Originally Posted by Howard Long
(Post 32853139)
Interestingly I haven't yet heard anything from my supplier, I texted and emailed her to explain the situation before she checked in to her flight to DOH, but have yet to receive a response. XXX-DOH-XXX with a same-day turnaround. |
Originally Posted by LondonElite
(Post 32853146)
Haha, maybe she was denied boarding as well for trying to pull the same caper! ;)
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