BA Holiday Change in Flight Consequences
Oct 20, 2020, 12:43 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: BA Silver / Aegean
Posts: 286
BA Holiday Change in Flight Consequences
Help. Expertise wanted ....
Am going on a BA Holiday to the Carribean in early November.
Booked a great Accomodation/Flight Deal at the time and now all paid UP!
BUT BA have now cancelled my flight home on 19 Nov & now are flying me home 20 Nov.
My original departure date is the same 8 Nov unchanged but I am now in resort 12 nights not 11 nights
BA are saying they now to reprice and for my resort and accomodation they want circa £ 900 extra for that one night. Essentially the special offer i booked on is now no longer and its full whack! Its a good resort & premium Beachfront room as all in for my Lady!
My options are
1) The Lady in BA Newcastle ( lovely Lass ) is contacting resort to see if they will accomodate a 12 nite for same 11 nite price.
2) Alternately my fall back is they honour the 11 nites but get BA and the hotel to accept a day later departure,
3) Alternately I simply accept all this and stump up an extra night in Antigua. Aint cheap though depending where I go. Can slum it if needed circa £ 200 so not the end of the world really and an extra night somewhere else on bright side.
4) Alternately I get annoyed and cancel everything for a blinking refund credit and go another time somewhere else. Dont want this as its been on the Calendar as my Lifesaver during COVID
I don't think Rule 461 applies as BA cancelled return within the 2 week window BUT its a flight/Holiday accomodation deal so surprised now that their position is you have to REPRICE and pay differential yourself in a BA Holiday arrangement.
BA don't seem to be honouring that I have paid in full and expect to go on Hols under the original committment made!
Am I being naive?
Steve
The extra night is not huge if I stay somewhere cheap but its the principle that is hurting here.
BA in Newcastle Call Centre are great but they dont seem to be bending anything in my favour
This is an expensive deal for me in a 5 star resort and its leaving a sour taste.
Certainlly wont be sharing my CC statement to the Mrs if I have to fork out.
Recommendations?
Am going on a BA Holiday to the Carribean in early November.
Booked a great Accomodation/Flight Deal at the time and now all paid UP!
BUT BA have now cancelled my flight home on 19 Nov & now are flying me home 20 Nov.
My original departure date is the same 8 Nov unchanged but I am now in resort 12 nights not 11 nights
BA are saying they now to reprice and for my resort and accomodation they want circa £ 900 extra for that one night. Essentially the special offer i booked on is now no longer and its full whack! Its a good resort & premium Beachfront room as all in for my Lady!
My options are
1) The Lady in BA Newcastle ( lovely Lass ) is contacting resort to see if they will accomodate a 12 nite for same 11 nite price.
2) Alternately my fall back is they honour the 11 nites but get BA and the hotel to accept a day later departure,
3) Alternately I simply accept all this and stump up an extra night in Antigua. Aint cheap though depending where I go. Can slum it if needed circa £ 200 so not the end of the world really and an extra night somewhere else on bright side.
4) Alternately I get annoyed and cancel everything for a blinking refund credit and go another time somewhere else. Dont want this as its been on the Calendar as my Lifesaver during COVID
I don't think Rule 461 applies as BA cancelled return within the 2 week window BUT its a flight/Holiday accomodation deal so surprised now that their position is you have to REPRICE and pay differential yourself in a BA Holiday arrangement.
BA don't seem to be honouring that I have paid in full and expect to go on Hols under the original committment made!
Am I being naive?
Steve
The extra night is not huge if I stay somewhere cheap but its the principle that is hurting here.
BA in Newcastle Call Centre are great but they dont seem to be bending anything in my favour
This is an expensive deal for me in a 5 star resort and its leaving a sour taste.
Certainlly wont be sharing my CC statement to the Mrs if I have to fork out.
Recommendations?
Oct 20, 2020, 12:50 pm
#2
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,243
Options 1 and 2 seems the most agreeable but if it were me I would definitely go for option 3 rather than 4. Have a day trip somewhere and do something to make the extra day and night special.
Oct 20, 2020, 1:41 pm
#4
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 872
I would say option 1 and 2 are probably the best bet. Other options are assuming you have travel insurance, see if it covers delay? Amex Plat Insurance does upto £300 per person for travel inconviniance, so thats £600 for the two and your only down £300 if you do end up having to pay.
Oct 20, 2020, 2:11 pm
#5
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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This is all a bit odd. Normally if BA does an involuntary change like this, they absorb the cost.
Firstly you can have a full cash refund, this is a significant change so you have that protection, you don't have to take a credit note or FTV.
Secondly BAH should also offer you another holiday location of similar quality if the hotel is being silly, but it should not result in a reprice to you.
Thirdly, it's just BA doing a reprice here, the hotel almost certainly will offer the final night at a pro-rata for that night so long as you check-in on the original date (it is when this doesn't happen that it gets complicated).
Finally BAH can do a surcharge for some reasons - for example a fuel surcharge if aviation fuel goes sky high - but the basis is that it's an external cost item, not an internal cost such as this. So trying to get you to pay £900 seems incorrect to me if this was booked as a Package Travel.
Firstly you can have a full cash refund, this is a significant change so you have that protection, you don't have to take a credit note or FTV.
Secondly BAH should also offer you another holiday location of similar quality if the hotel is being silly, but it should not result in a reprice to you.
Thirdly, it's just BA doing a reprice here, the hotel almost certainly will offer the final night at a pro-rata for that night so long as you check-in on the original date (it is when this doesn't happen that it gets complicated).
Finally BAH can do a surcharge for some reasons - for example a fuel surcharge if aviation fuel goes sky high - but the basis is that it's an external cost item, not an internal cost such as this. So trying to get you to pay £900 seems incorrect to me if this was booked as a Package Travel.
Oct 20, 2020, 11:37 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shoreham By Sea
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,316
I was also on the same cancelled fligtt, too with pricey accommodation but I was on a companion voucher and had booked hotel direct.
i actually changed to the flight on the 18th and saved £700 in hotel fees. I wasn’t over the moon with the 10pm departure on the 19th and am happier with the 7pm one the day before.
i actually changed to the flight on the 18th and saved £700 in hotel fees. I wasn’t over the moon with the 10pm departure on the 19th and am happier with the 7pm one the day before.
Oct 21, 2020, 4:27 am
#7
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I have had a delve into this one and it seems there has been a policy change. The short version of the following is that while the policy change is understandable, I don't think it is legally watertight. I am not a lawyer however. The OP may well have greater consumer protection than s/he thinks, though I doubt BA will be helpful about this. However they do appear to be helpful in trying to come up with an alternative solution, and regardless of the legal niceties, this is usually the best way to go.
Previously if BA cancelled a flght to a BAH location it would be at short notice - weather cancellations and so on - and the usual policy for BAH was just to arrange an extra night or two at the destination at BAH's expense - they would liaise with the hotel and it was perhaps one of the reasons that BAH has a good customer reputation. Occasionally this would cause further problems, such as the hotel being full or the traveller needing to get back to work and BAH would generally come up with a solution that would work (e.g. alternative hotel or resort). As far as I know, for late changes, this still applies.
However BA have been shunting flights, particularly longhaul, all over the place, and a typical scenario is a schedule going down from one flight daily to 3 or 4 flights a week. These get announced just over 2 weeks before departure, or longer. And this obviously puts a difficult pressure on BAH where holidays in expensive locations have to be reorganised. The new policy is that if the holiday is extended as a result, the customer is being asked to pay more. In fact BAH are doing three things:
1) Changing schedules quite drastically
This is allowed under the relevant consumer protection legislations, which are EC261, the Consumer Rights Act and The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018. which is a EC inspired Statutory Instrument now fully incorporated into UK law. There are slight changes for Northern Ireland, but nothing of consequence.
2) Asking BAH passengers to pay more money if hotel reservations need to be extended.
BAH may - in very limited circumstance - be allowed to do this. I think it is very questionable as seen below.
3) Asking BAH passengers to accept a repricing of holidays, removing previous discounts, sales and what not, for the entire holiday. This led to the OP looking at a £900, since pro-rata I assume it would be a lower amount.
I am certain this is not allowed.
Let's look at the relevant wording in the legislation for repricing:
Now I think the problems become manifest.
1) Was the OP given 20 days notice with a clear justification and a calculation?
2) Did the OP have a contract that allowed price rises? I can't see wording in the Terms and Conditions for this, nor the provision that BAH will refund favourable exchange rate changes - something that I have never heard them do.
3) The circumstances allowing for price rises do not include circumstances where BA / BAH chooses to cancel services.
4) The circumstances allowing for price rises are essentially those outside BA / BAH's control.
5) The CRA certainly won't allow BA to do a full repricing, that is by any definition an unfair contract, in fact, to use American parlance, it's "bait and switch".
Against this two things have to be borne in mind
A) BAH do have the absolute right to cancel holidays and refund the cost in full to the original mean(s) of payment. So if we get too upset about this then BAH will just cancel holidays that become uneconomic for them. It won't do much for BAH's reputation, but it is definitely allowed.
B) It is implied by the OP that this is already ongoing, but there is a provision in both the legistlation and the BAH Terms and Conditions, for BAH to change holidays, so another option is that BAH comes up with another resort for the same price as the OP paid. If the quality is lower than the original location then compensation or a refund is due. BAH probably could find somewhere like this to at least mitigate the £900 but it may disappoint the OP mightily. But that is definitely allowed.
I guess I need to reiterate that it would be best if the OP and BAH come up with a better arrangement which keeps everyone happy. One small advantage is that BAH are operating in a market where they can lean on hotels to share the costs involved, which an individual booker won't be able to do. This incident is an anecdote, I hope it is a rare occurence but I fear the policy change mentioned above will mean a new problem has been highlighted here. This policy change is not legal in my view, however there may of course be other factors involved here, and one can see how BAH is struggling, as we all are, by this wretched pandemic. It's important not to take any of this out on BAH staff - they have to work to policy and aren't paid to be lawyers. So remedies will have to be undertaken externally (e.g. Money Claim Online).
The CAA is the enforcement authority for the Statutory Instrument, in Northern Ireland it's the Department for the Economy. For some aspects, but not the ones in the spotlight here, there is a role for local authority Trading Standards.
Previously if BA cancelled a flght to a BAH location it would be at short notice - weather cancellations and so on - and the usual policy for BAH was just to arrange an extra night or two at the destination at BAH's expense - they would liaise with the hotel and it was perhaps one of the reasons that BAH has a good customer reputation. Occasionally this would cause further problems, such as the hotel being full or the traveller needing to get back to work and BAH would generally come up with a solution that would work (e.g. alternative hotel or resort). As far as I know, for late changes, this still applies.
However BA have been shunting flights, particularly longhaul, all over the place, and a typical scenario is a schedule going down from one flight daily to 3 or 4 flights a week. These get announced just over 2 weeks before departure, or longer. And this obviously puts a difficult pressure on BAH where holidays in expensive locations have to be reorganised. The new policy is that if the holiday is extended as a result, the customer is being asked to pay more. In fact BAH are doing three things:
1) Changing schedules quite drastically
This is allowed under the relevant consumer protection legislations, which are EC261, the Consumer Rights Act and The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018. which is a EC inspired Statutory Instrument now fully incorporated into UK law. There are slight changes for Northern Ireland, but nothing of consequence.
2) Asking BAH passengers to pay more money if hotel reservations need to be extended.
BAH may - in very limited circumstance - be allowed to do this. I think it is very questionable as seen below.
3) Asking BAH passengers to accept a repricing of holidays, removing previous discounts, sales and what not, for the entire holiday. This led to the OP looking at a £900, since pro-rata I assume it would be a lower amount.
I am certain this is not allowed.
Let's look at the relevant wording in the legislation for repricing:
Originally Posted by The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018
10.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.
(2) The prices specified in a package travel contract must not be increased once the contract is concluded unless the contract—
(a) states expressly that such an increase may be made;
(b) states that price increases are to be made solely to allow for increases which are a direct consequence of changes in—
(i) the price of the carriage of passengers resulting from the cost of fuel or other power sources;
(ii) the level of taxes or fees on the travel services included in the contract imposed by third parties not directly involved in the performance of the package, including tourist taxes, landing taxes or embarkation or disembarkation fees at ports and airports; and
(iii) the exchange rates relevant to the package;
(c)provides that the traveller has the right to a price reduction corresponding to any decrease in the costs referred to in sub-paragraph (b) that occurs before the start of the package once the contract is concluded; and
(d)provides how the revisions referred to in sub-paragraphs (a) and (b) are to be calculated.
(3) Irrespective of its extent, a price increase may only be made if the organiser notifies the traveller clearly and comprehensibly of it with a justification for that increase and a calculation, on a durable medium, at the latest 20 days before the start of the package.
(2) The prices specified in a package travel contract must not be increased once the contract is concluded unless the contract—
(a) states expressly that such an increase may be made;
(b) states that price increases are to be made solely to allow for increases which are a direct consequence of changes in—
(i) the price of the carriage of passengers resulting from the cost of fuel or other power sources;
(ii) the level of taxes or fees on the travel services included in the contract imposed by third parties not directly involved in the performance of the package, including tourist taxes, landing taxes or embarkation or disembarkation fees at ports and airports; and
(iii) the exchange rates relevant to the package;
(c)provides that the traveller has the right to a price reduction corresponding to any decrease in the costs referred to in sub-paragraph (b) that occurs before the start of the package once the contract is concluded; and
(d)provides how the revisions referred to in sub-paragraphs (a) and (b) are to be calculated.
(3) Irrespective of its extent, a price increase may only be made if the organiser notifies the traveller clearly and comprehensibly of it with a justification for that increase and a calculation, on a durable medium, at the latest 20 days before the start of the package.
1) Was the OP given 20 days notice with a clear justification and a calculation?
2) Did the OP have a contract that allowed price rises? I can't see wording in the Terms and Conditions for this, nor the provision that BAH will refund favourable exchange rate changes - something that I have never heard them do.
3) The circumstances allowing for price rises do not include circumstances where BA / BAH chooses to cancel services.
4) The circumstances allowing for price rises are essentially those outside BA / BAH's control.
5) The CRA certainly won't allow BA to do a full repricing, that is by any definition an unfair contract, in fact, to use American parlance, it's "bait and switch".
Against this two things have to be borne in mind
A) BAH do have the absolute right to cancel holidays and refund the cost in full to the original mean(s) of payment. So if we get too upset about this then BAH will just cancel holidays that become uneconomic for them. It won't do much for BAH's reputation, but it is definitely allowed.
B) It is implied by the OP that this is already ongoing, but there is a provision in both the legistlation and the BAH Terms and Conditions, for BAH to change holidays, so another option is that BAH comes up with another resort for the same price as the OP paid. If the quality is lower than the original location then compensation or a refund is due. BAH probably could find somewhere like this to at least mitigate the £900 but it may disappoint the OP mightily. But that is definitely allowed.
I guess I need to reiterate that it would be best if the OP and BAH come up with a better arrangement which keeps everyone happy. One small advantage is that BAH are operating in a market where they can lean on hotels to share the costs involved, which an individual booker won't be able to do. This incident is an anecdote, I hope it is a rare occurence but I fear the policy change mentioned above will mean a new problem has been highlighted here. This policy change is not legal in my view, however there may of course be other factors involved here, and one can see how BAH is struggling, as we all are, by this wretched pandemic. It's important not to take any of this out on BAH staff - they have to work to policy and aren't paid to be lawyers. So remedies will have to be undertaken externally (e.g. Money Claim Online).
The CAA is the enforcement authority for the Statutory Instrument, in Northern Ireland it's the Department for the Economy. For some aspects, but not the ones in the spotlight here, there is a role for local authority Trading Standards.
Oct 21, 2020, 6:32 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NQY
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 500
I guess I need to reiterate that it would be best if the OP and BAH come up with a better arrangement which keeps everyone happy. One small advantage is that BAH are operating in a market where they can lean on hotels to share the costs involved, which an individual booker won't be able to do. This incident is an anecdote, I hope it is a rare occurence but I fear the policy change mentioned above will mean a new problem has been highlighted here. This policy change is not legal in my view, however there may of course be other factors involved here, and one can see how BAH is struggling, as we all are, by this wretched pandemic. It's important not to take any of this out on BAH staff - they have to work to policy and aren't paid to be lawyers. So remedies will have to be undertaken externally (e.g. Money Claim Online).
The CAA is the enforcement authority for the Statutory Instrument, in Northern Ireland it's the Department for the Economy. For some aspects, but not the ones in the spotlight here, there is a role for local authority Trading Standards.
The CAA is the enforcement authority for the Statutory Instrument, in Northern Ireland it's the Department for the Economy. For some aspects, but not the ones in the spotlight here, there is a role for local authority Trading Standards.
Oct 21, 2020, 6:50 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,237
That was a very useful post. What would you suggest that the OP and others in the situation actually do though? I'm assuming something like a) ask nicely for them to just provide the extra day and then b) ask them to provide the extra day pro-rata. If it ends up with (b), just pay, take the holiday and then MCO afterwards?
Oct 21, 2020, 7:05 am
#10
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,736
That was a very useful post. What would you suggest that the OP and others in the situation actually do though? I'm assuming something like a) ask nicely for them to just provide the extra day and then b) ask them to provide the extra day pro-rata. If it ends up with (b), just pay, take the holiday and then MCO afterwards?
Oct 21, 2020, 7:12 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,446
Help. Expertise wanted ....
Am going on a BA Holiday to the Carribean in early November.
Booked a great Accomodation/Flight Deal at the time and now all paid UP!
BUT BA have now cancelled my flight home on 19 Nov & now are flying me home 20 Nov.
My original departure date is the same 8 Nov unchanged but I am now in resort 12 nights not 11 nights
BA are saying they now to reprice and for my resort and accomodation they want circa £ 900 extra for that one night. Essentially the special offer i booked on is now no longer and its full whack! Its a good resort & premium Beachfront room as all in for my Lady!
My options are
1) The Lady in BA Newcastle ( lovely Lass ) is contacting resort to see if they will accomodate a 12 nite for same 11 nite price.
2) Alternately my fall back is they honour the 11 nites but get BA and the hotel to accept a day later departure,
3) Alternately I simply accept all this and stump up an extra night in Antigua. Aint cheap though depending where I go. Can slum it if needed circa £ 200 so not the end of the world really and an extra night somewhere else on bright side.
4) Alternately I get annoyed and cancel everything for a blinking refund credit and go another time somewhere else. Dont want this as its been on the Calendar as my Lifesaver during COVID
I don't think Rule 461 applies as BA cancelled return within the 2 week window BUT its a flight/Holiday accomodation deal so surprised now that their position is you have to REPRICE and pay differential yourself in a BA Holiday arrangement.
BA don't seem to be honouring that I have paid in full and expect to go on Hols under the original committment made!
Am I being naive?
Steve
The extra night is not huge if I stay somewhere cheap but its the principle that is hurting here.
BA in Newcastle Call Centre are great but they dont seem to be bending anything in my favour
This is an expensive deal for me in a 5 star resort and its leaving a sour taste.
Certainlly wont be sharing my CC statement to the Mrs if I have to fork out.
Recommendations?
Am going on a BA Holiday to the Carribean in early November.
Booked a great Accomodation/Flight Deal at the time and now all paid UP!
BUT BA have now cancelled my flight home on 19 Nov & now are flying me home 20 Nov.
My original departure date is the same 8 Nov unchanged but I am now in resort 12 nights not 11 nights
BA are saying they now to reprice and for my resort and accomodation they want circa £ 900 extra for that one night. Essentially the special offer i booked on is now no longer and its full whack! Its a good resort & premium Beachfront room as all in for my Lady!
My options are
1) The Lady in BA Newcastle ( lovely Lass ) is contacting resort to see if they will accomodate a 12 nite for same 11 nite price.
2) Alternately my fall back is they honour the 11 nites but get BA and the hotel to accept a day later departure,
3) Alternately I simply accept all this and stump up an extra night in Antigua. Aint cheap though depending where I go. Can slum it if needed circa £ 200 so not the end of the world really and an extra night somewhere else on bright side.
4) Alternately I get annoyed and cancel everything for a blinking refund credit and go another time somewhere else. Dont want this as its been on the Calendar as my Lifesaver during COVID
I don't think Rule 461 applies as BA cancelled return within the 2 week window BUT its a flight/Holiday accomodation deal so surprised now that their position is you have to REPRICE and pay differential yourself in a BA Holiday arrangement.
BA don't seem to be honouring that I have paid in full and expect to go on Hols under the original committment made!
Am I being naive?
Steve
The extra night is not huge if I stay somewhere cheap but its the principle that is hurting here.
BA in Newcastle Call Centre are great but they dont seem to be bending anything in my favour
This is an expensive deal for me in a 5 star resort and its leaving a sour taste.
Certainlly wont be sharing my CC statement to the Mrs if I have to fork out.
Recommendations?
Oct 21, 2020, 7:39 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: BD Silver, HH Gold, BA Silver, CX Gold
Posts: 443
It is exactly this kind of scenario (or potential quarantine coming into force) that is putting doubt in my mind to pay off the balance for a BAH to the Caribbean at the end of this month...
Oct 21, 2020, 8:49 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MAN, PSP
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 208
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1205145.html
“British Airways has apologised for asking a holidaymaker to pay £438 for an extra night’s accommodation after cancelling their original flight home”
Looks like someone got a resolution...
“British Airways has apologised for asking a holidaymaker to pay £438 for an extra night’s accommodation after cancelling their original flight home”
Looks like someone got a resolution...
Oct 21, 2020, 9:20 am
#15
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,736