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Is there a fee to cancel a non-ticketed ticket?

Is there a fee to cancel a non-ticketed ticket?

Old Oct 3, 20, 4:26 pm
  #1  
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Is there a fee to cancel a non-ticketed ticket?

Hi,

I have Avios tickets in F from GLA-LHR-San Diego and they haven't been ticketed. YouFirst says they probably won't be ticketed until a few days before the Dec departure.

If I cancel and book CW from Bru/Lux - where the price is almost less than the taxes and fees on the Avios flights - then I won't need the Avios tickets. But I would rather skip the 35 x 2 fees.

ps Reason flight not ticketed is that it was an EDI-LHR-SAN ticket and the EDI flights were cancelled. And, in turn, the EDI flight used a FTV with a 241 from a EDI-LCY flight that was cancelled. Would just have left it until later - since the flight cancellation would have given me journey cancellation flexibility - but Flygodess is desperate to see family and needs something booked to hope for.

So, options:

Stump up 70 and cancel. (and get another FTV with the 241) Rebook cash ex-BRU/LUX
Book cash BRU/LUX in CW and UUA to F - and wait in case there is a flight change on original booking and get free cancellation on that. (new cash ticket is FTV eligible)
Or can I get the 70 waived since ex-GLA not ticketed?
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Old Oct 3, 20, 8:17 pm
  #2  
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You have bought the tickets and are therefore subject to the Avios redemption terms and conditions which means you have to pay the cancellation fees if you want to cancel them. The fact that they have not yet been ticketed is not relevant. That's an internal BA process issue.
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Old Oct 3, 20, 8:31 pm
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Originally Posted by flygod View Post
So, options:

Stump up 70 and cancel. (and get another FTV with the 241) Rebook cash ex-BRU/LUX
Book cash BRU/LUX in CW and UUA to F - and wait in case there is a flight change on original booking and get free cancellation on that. (new cash ticket is FTV eligible)
Or can I get the 70 waived since ex-GLA not ticketed?
You can cancel without consequence as soon as it has not been ticketed.

Because your final destination is SAN, so DOT rule applies, even for award tickets. DOT guidance has not really defined when the 24-hour deadline applies, i.e. time of the reservation or time of the ticket. But to avoid any conflicting law, I believe DOT adopts the time of ticketing as the basis (otherwise, airlines may be subject to other violations like unfair and deceptive practice).

Because your reservation has not been finalized, you basically have nothing. That's why you can cancel the reservation without consequence.

Originally Posted by golfmad View Post
You have bought the tickets and are therefore subject to the Avios redemption terms and conditions which means you have to pay the cancellation fees if you want to cancel them. The fact that they have not yet been ticketed is not relevant. That's an internal BA process issue.
Sorry. In this case, DOT regulations override the Avios T&Cs, if any.
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Old Oct 3, 20, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
You can cancel without consequence as soon as it has not been ticketed.

Because your final destination is SAN, so DOT rule applies, even for award tickets. DOT guidance has not really defined when the 24-hour deadline applies, i.e. time of the reservation or time of the ticket. But to avoid any conflicting law, I believe DOT adopts the time of ticketing as the basis (otherwise, airlines may be subject to other violations like unfair and deceptive practice).

Because your reservation has not been finalized, you basically have nothing. That's why you can cancel the reservation without consequence.



Sorry. In this case, DOT regulations override the Avios T&Cs, if any.
With respect, it does matter. You're quoting DOT regulations that would apply to a US originating reservations. My understanding is these wouldn't apply to reservations originating in the UK and paid for in GBP against a UK registered Avios account.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 1:22 am
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Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post
With respect, it does matter. You're quoting DOT regulations that would apply to a US originating reservations. My understanding is these wouldn't apply to reservations originating in the UK and paid for in GBP against a UK registered Avios account.
DOT regulations apply to any booking that touches the US.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 3:07 am
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Originally Posted by alex_b View Post
DOT regulations apply to any booking that touches the US.
This isnt just a brand new booking though. The op had confirmed flights and was then changing them. Therefore if he doesnt confirm the new flights the cancellation fee for the original confirmed ticket still applies.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by Anonba View Post
This isnt just a brand new booking though. The op had confirmed flights and was then changing them. Therefore if he doesnt confirm the new flights the cancellation fee for the original confirmed ticket still applies.
Exactly. The original tickets will have been issued within moments of the original purchase. Changes require tickets to be reissued and that takes time. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that free cancellations might be available to all simply by requesting a change to a ticket and then cancelling before it is reissued.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 7:49 am
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What did BA say when you asked them?
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Old Oct 4, 20, 10:36 am
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It pays to read the US DOT rule first. It expressly speaks to "reservations" and not "tickets". 14 CFR 259.5(b)(4) and it applies to BA on flights operated by BA to or from the US. Same title, Section 259.5(a). Thus, whether BA has ticketed the reservation is irrelevant (as it ought to be).

While it is true that the law would take precedence over a contract, in this case the law and the contract are not at odds.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by flygod View Post
Hi,

I have Avios tickets in F from GLA-LHR-San Diego and they haven't been ticketed. YouFirst says they probably won't be ticketed until a few days before the Dec
I have an ABZ-DEN booking for mid December and rate the likelihood of the USA lifting its travel ban on Europeans as close to nil as you can get.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by alex_b View Post
DOT regulations apply to any booking that touches the US.
Id like to see US regulations stand up in UK small claims court, they wont!!
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Old Oct 4, 20, 12:57 pm
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Originally Posted by PGberkshire View Post
Id like to see US regulations stand up in UK small claims court, they wont!!
Doesn't need to - If the situation is one where the US regulation applies, then can raise the issue through DOT and then it passes onto the airline and is required to respond

In this situation, it seems that after the cancellation of the flightr chose to rebook rather than cancel the ticket

If the booking had been cancelled and then a whole new booking made from scratch had been made, then if not ticketed, could have been cancelled without penalty since it wouldn't have been paid for
In this case, I cannot see that DOT regulations would entitle the passenger to a fee free cancellation
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Old Oct 4, 20, 1:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Doesn't need to - If the situation is one where the US regulation applies, then can raise the issue through DOT and then it passes onto the airline and is required to respond

In this situation, it seems that after the cancellation of the flightr chose to rebook rather than cancel the ticket

If the booking had been cancelled and then a whole new booking made from scratch had been made, then if not ticketed, could have been cancelled without penalty since it wouldn't have been paid for
In this case, I cannot see that DOT regulations would entitle the passenger to a fee free cancellation
Does a UK passenger have standing with DOT?
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Old Oct 4, 20, 1:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Anonba View Post
This isnt just a brand new booking though. The op had confirmed flights and was then changing them. Therefore if he doesnt confirm the new flights the cancellation fee for the original confirmed ticket still applies.
Originally Posted by golfmad View Post
Exactly. The original tickets will have been issued within moments of the original purchase. Changes require tickets to be reissued and that takes time. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that free cancellations might be available to all simply by requesting a change to a ticket and then cancelling before it is reissued.
Sure - I may miss the part that it is not a new reservation. But the fact does not change - the ticket has not been issued or re-issued.

EC261/2004 defines reservation as "the fact that the passenger has a ticket, or other proof, which indicates that the reservation has been accepted and registered by the air carrier or tour operator". On that basis, under the existing law, OP does not have a reservation after the initial cancellation of its EDI flight.

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
It pays to read the US DOT rule first. It expressly speaks to "reservations" and not "tickets". 14 CFR 259.5(b)(4) and it applies to BA on flights operated by BA to or from the US. Same title, Section 259.5(a). Thus, whether BA has ticketed the reservation is irrelevant (as it ought to be).

While it is true that the law would take precedence over a contract, in this case the law and the contract are not at odds.
It was an existing reservation, as I misread. So that portion does not apply.

Originally Posted by PGberkshire View Post
Id like to see US regulations stand up in UK small claims court, they wont!!
It does not really matter. Practically, in all relevant jurisdiction, OP does not have a confirmed reservation, i.e. the ticket, yet. So OP can cancel it without consequence.
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Old Oct 4, 20, 1:36 pm
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Originally Posted by PGberkshire View Post
Does a UK passenger have standing with DOT?
yup - any passenger can contact DOT where it believes that the airline is not in compliance

Last edited by Dave Noble; Oct 4, 20 at 1:43 pm
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