Empty BA flights, particularly USA

Old Aug 19, 2020, 7:09 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 439
Empty BA flights, particularly USA

How and why are BA still operating these? Looking at a few seat maps and travelling myself to the US in a few weeks, the planes have the lightest loads, I can literally select any seat in the cabin. Probably less than 20 people per flight according to EF and thats for flights in the next few days.

BA must be operating these at a loss unless the cargo is that lucrative...?
Brisbane Road is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 7:14 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 18,934
Cargo is that lucrative, gold in the hold.
Can I help you is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 7:20 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lincoln, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 1,254
Most passengers can only select a seat at T-24. Seat maps before that may give an indication of loads, but it is not possible to say any flight is or is not well sold.
And as CIHY suggests, cargo will pay for a flight. Many flights continue to operate cargo only and as BA are not a charity, this must be for profit.
orbitmic likes this.
HarryHolden68 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 7:40 am
  #4  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 439
Interesting. To answer your question about seat maps, was looking at Expert Flyer which should give a better indication, no?

Also have friends and family members that have flown to the US over the past few weeks reporting near empty flights
Brisbane Road is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 7:50 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Diamond, Hertz Gold 5*
Posts: 5,812
ExpertFlyer only shows seats which have been selected by members with status or those who have paid for their seats. I's not a great guide to the number of reservations until there are fewer than 9 seats left in any cabin.

On my flight to KEF last week, I really thought that the ET cabin would be pretty much empty - for 3 months leading up to the flight until about 2 weeks to go, the 4 people in my booking were the only seats confirmed in ET. When we departed, there were 3 empty seats in ET. The return flight was even busier - just one empty seat in ET.

I do suspect that US loads will be much lower due to very few people being able to enter the US currently, but every flight I have taken in the last month (AMS, TXL and KEF) has been at least 90% full.
ThatT1Feeling is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 8:06 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: BA Gold, VS Silver
Posts: 399
They were running 2 flights a day to JFK, one for pax, one as cargo only
Farringdon is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 8:12 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,136
Id be fairly confident that BA arent flying low numbers of pax on certain routes at a huge loss for no reason! Theyd be pulling those without doubt over these tough times, there has to be revenue generated in the belly or elsewhere
mikeyfly is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 8:55 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, Babylon-on-Thames
Programs: BAEC Blue (back to Earth)
Posts: 1,480
Is there cargo? Yes.
Are the US flights loss making? Almost certainly.
Why operate them? Because things are desperate.

Long haul has been dead since late March and theres no sign of recovery for obvious reasons.
skipness1E is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 9:00 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: BA GGL & GfL, AA LTP, Marriott (sigh) Ambassador, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,184
are they loss making though?

i mean you see AA making a point of talking about their cargo only flights since march, and they shut all of their international network down for a time...so it isnt like they would operate them just for show if cargo wasnt going to make the flights profitable?
VSLover is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 9:17 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,700
I have a LHR-JFK next week - so far there are only 3 of us in the Y cabin. I should think that will increase but I suspect getting a three to myself won't be hard.
PAL62V is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 9:37 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 4me
Posts: 11,916
Originally Posted by Brisbane Road
How and why are BA still operating these? Looking at a few seat maps and travelling myself to the US in a few weeks,
To serve people like yourself??
TomMM is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 9:48 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 165
On my recent DFW-LHR flight, cabin crew said there were only 44 passengers on board, and only 20 on the outbound from LHR.
This flight was reintroduced recently in addition to the daily AA flight, not sure why to be honest.
Pocalypse is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 9:53 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,575
Also, there is loss making and loss making: A flight that makes a little more than the cost of fuel, crew, etc. can still contribute towards aircraft leasing payments or Mr. Cruz's salary. So if it makes a little more than its variable cost, it would be a loss making flight, but would still help the bottom line.
skipness1E, george77300 and TTmex like this.
LCY8737 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 10:00 am
  #14  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by skipness1E
Is there cargo? Yes.
Are the US flights loss making? Almost certainly.
The question "are the US flights loss-making?" is the wrong one. From a business perspective, the more appropriate question is "does BA reduce its losses by operating these flights (vis-a-vis not operating them)?"

Why operate them?
Because BA expects to reduce its losses by carrying out these US flights. If the aircraft remained on the ground, the financing cost of the aircraft remained largely unchanged. Payrolls cannot be brought down 1:1 with a reduction in operations. Etc.

---

And, btw, SQ recently announced that operating certain intercontinental routes with as little as 30 pax on board is having a positive contribution margin for them. Part of the reason is what previous posters suggested: Cargo isn't doing so badly these days.
flyertalker28120 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2020, 10:03 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 493
"Cash positive"
JFX1764 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.