TWCLAM

Sorry but if you think market conditions will lead to their being a shortage of either CC or Pilots within the next few years then you are bordering on insanity. Thousands upon thousands of both categories have, are or will be laid off( sadly) and to imagine there will be a shortage of staff within the next half decade is unfathomable.

Even external / foreign staff will need minimal familiarisation & company SOP training and will be fighting hand over fist to get their foot in the door.

Ancient Observer

Please, please!

I like these threads, but the mods will shut us down again if we do not temper our remarks.

Agent69

If the ballot for strike action is held after the redundancies start how will Unite know who is entitled to vote? I believe that in the MF dispute a few years ago the courts stopped one lot of strike action because Unite didn't ballot an up to date list of members. Also if the ballot fails to approve industrial action what next for Unite?

Tricky times ahead.

BOH

Seriously? Maybe I have a higher tolerance level and acceptance that there are people on this planet that have different views to others including mine. From what I have read in the last 24 hours in both these active threads there is absolutely nothing that would warrant a shut down. What there is, is a robust exchange of differing views and as far as I know this is usually permitted on FT and in most walks of life that I frequent

jonas123

I think the point is that there are lots of unemployed people in general out there, not just trained crew. BA could probably offer existing MF salaries and ask the crew to fund their own training and I'm sure there would be a surplus of applications. Assume there are also crew from VS, Norwegian, easyJet etc. who have been made redundant that would be quite happy to just have the chance to work again.

The fact is that you can train a CC member in what, 6 weeks, maybe less? It can easily be sold as an attractive job, even if the conditions are terrible, and in a market with general high levels of unemployment, those roles will be snapped up.

BOH

I would love to be able to share your optimism that the economy will have recovered enough for this to happen, I really would. But even in the most recent times of relatively high employment levels I recall BA, FR, U2 etc generally had no problem at all in recruiting at the pay they were offering.

If we can return to 2019 economic activity levels by next year that would be amazing for every sector, not just aviation. Only if there was a sudden step-change increase in flights and 1000s of airline staff needed in a short period will shortages happen and then the usual supply and demand rules apply to pay rates.

TWCLAM

Agent69 Yes this came up when we were discussing the subject the other day as it happens. If they call a ballot pre/ during the layoff stage then any ballot will be null & void as at least a % of those balloted may no longer be staff ( again unfortunately) so, imho, any legal challenge from BA on those grounds would likely be upheld. That's ignoring the clear legal challenge they already have regarding a ballot even being held.

If BALPA can sit down, much later in the day, and thrash out a reasonable deal then Unite haven't a leg to stand on when they refuse to even sit at the table let alone the moral question of hanging their members out to dry and achieving literally nothing in 3 odd months. Even BA's lawyer's have cottoned onto this fact and make a point of pointing it out in all the company communiques on thee subject now.

T8191

As has been mentioned on FT elsewhere, the challenge will the Training Capacity.

But I generally agree ... although somewhat OT, there are, globally, millions in the Hospitality sector who are going to be impacted severely by C-19. This is a bigger issue than BA, Airlines or Unite ... reality may eventually return to such negotiations.

Ancient Observer

One suspects that if BA are targetting people, and I have no evidence to suggest that they are, then it is possible that some of the Trainers might be leaving. I imagine that will impact training capacity - but the demand for it will be some time away.

Dave_C

I'm still at a loss to understand what Unite actually want from BA? Do they accept the principle of SFLHR or do they want to maintain WW/EF/MF structure? If they do accept SFLHR, then is it just about pay? Apart from simply saying BA are being ghastly, I don't get it.

AirbusA350

Unsure about what they want from other sections of staff they represent but for crew at least (where let’s face it the majority of the union power comes from) it would very likely be to completely remain with heads in sands and protect BASSA and their fleets and their entire T & Cs and package without any change whilst ditching or letting MF go under the bus.

T8191

Trying to be apolitical, Unite are rightly trying to protect their Union members. What I can’t really grasp is why they are realistically heading for the destruction of BA and ALL its staff. Are they expecting a Government subsidy to support the unsustainable salaries of thousands of BA employees? If they’re not very clever, Unite will have no employees and no airline to deal with.

Kicking a man when he’s down is not very British, but I guess Unite is being opportunist.

Confus

The opposite, BA are putting trainers ahead of other staff in the retention pool (unless they specifically ask to leave), precisely so they retain the flexibility in the future. Most trainers also fly, so are more flexible to be used in either camp.