Avios Devaluation?

Old Jul 4, 20, 5:07 pm
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Avios Devaluation?

Has anyone else noticed the devaluation of Avios when you upgrade a RFS ET to CE?

I just booked one-way ET Flight to MUC for cash in 'N' class and upgraded using Avios to CE. Expected to pay 3,750 Avios plus Tax off-peak for the upgrade, which is the RFS difference at the old RFS tax rates of 4,000 Avios + £17.50 ET/7,750 Avios + £25.00 CE.

Instead, I was charged 5,750 Avios + £13. That is the difference between the new Avios rates if you select 50p Tax - rather than the old RFS rates. In other words a 53% increase in Avios and 73% increase in taxes and charges.

Have I got this wrong? Or have upgrades of RFS just got much less attractive?
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Old Jul 4, 20, 5:19 pm
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Is this the £1 + 15,000 Avios that was introduced last year?
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Old Jul 4, 20, 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by rockflyertalk View Post
Is this the £1 + 15,000 Avios that was introduced last year?
Yes, when you now upgrade a ET seat with Avios you pay the difference in Avios at the £1 rate, not the smaller difference between the £17.50/£25 rates.
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Old Jul 4, 20, 6:43 pm
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It looks correct to me - a normal award booking in business class is 14250 Avios + £ 46.64, whilst in economy it is 8500 Avios + £ 33.64

Difference is 5740 Avios plus £13.

From what you have posted, it appears that you have a revenue booking , not a RFS award ticket
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Old Jul 4, 20, 10:07 pm
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I think we are confusing band 1 and band 2. Op is thinking this is band 1?
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Old Jul 5, 20, 12:03 am
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77 View Post
I think we are confusing band 1 and band 2. Op is thinking this is band 1?
MUC is band 1.
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Old Jul 5, 20, 12:18 am
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Originally Posted by pauldb View Post
MUC is band 1.
then it doesn’t make sense, it should be max 4500 avios to upgrade, the agent probably made a mistake,
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Old Jul 5, 20, 1:03 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
It looks correct to me - […]

From what you have posted, it appears that you have a revenue booking , not a RFS award ticket
I think you are correct on the second point, though it still doesn't make sense for the avios difference. The OP is confusing because the question contradicts the description in the situation in the next sentence (bolding mine) so I think that the OP needs to clarify.

Originally Posted by pjh981 View Post
Has anyone else noticed the devaluation of Avios when you upgrade a RFS ET to CE?

I just booked one-way ET Flight to MUC for cash in 'N' class and upgraded using Avios to CE.
In short:

- Upgrading a RFS means you booked a RFS award ticket and then decide to upgrade its class of travel: in effect, this will normally be effected as a cancel and rebook by the way. In that case, you'll indeed pay the difference in RFS award level and taxes at whatever rates you choose plus the relevant cancel/change fees.

- Upgrading a cash ticket to a higher class: this is quite different obviously but should still be based on the standard avios rate, not the avios+£1 rate so it seems to me that the OP has been overcharged.
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Old Jul 5, 20, 1:20 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
- Upgrading a cash ticket to a higher class: this is quite different obviously but should still be based on the standard avios rate, not the avios+£1 rate so it seems to me that the OP has been overcharged.
i think this is what we are talking about here.

The issue is that BA appear to have fully switched over to the £1 short haul pricing. 7,750 + £25 is no longer the standard rate. the standard is now 14,250 + £1 and if you don’t qualify for RFS it’s 14,250 + regular taxes. The “old” pricing now roughly exists as one of the better value avios&money variations.

One of the side effects of this is that UUA becomes poorer value. There’s another negative effect reported here, where people have been able to get agents to force it back to the old rates but I can’t for the life of me remember what it is!

Ironically where we would benefit would be using a 241. 14,250 + £2 would be great for two, but there BA seem to force it back to the old rates!

EDIT: Ah yes, the parallel is tagging a shorthaul on to a long haul. You now pay an incremental 14,250 not 7,750 I believe, and full fees.
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Old Jul 5, 20, 2:39 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I think you are correct on the second point, though it still doesn't make sense for the avios difference. The OP is confusing because the question contradicts the description in the situation in the next sentence (bolding mine) so I think that the OP needs to clarify.



In short:

- Upgrading a RFS means you booked a RFS award ticket and then decide to upgrade its class of travel: in effect, this will normally be effected as a cancel and rebook by the way. In that case, you'll indeed pay the difference in RFS award level and taxes at whatever rates you choose plus the relevant cancel/change fees.

- Upgrading a cash ticket to a higher class: this is quite different obviously but should still be based on the standard avios rate, not the avios+£1 rate so it seems to me that the OP has been overcharged.
But the standard rates lead to exactly what the OP was charged which is the difference between a business class award vs an economy class award
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Old Jul 5, 20, 3:12 am
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I buy and upgrade things almost weekly, and have never had a situation that i wouldnt have been charged the old difference (eg RFS usual banding +17.5/25 rates)
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Old Jul 5, 20, 3:40 am
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It changed to the higher price for me some time in May. Did mention it at the time here...

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32380457-post136.html
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Old Jul 5, 20, 3:40 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
But the standard rates lead to exactly what the OP was charged which is the difference between a business class award vs an economy class award
Nope, the rates you mention in your post above are still those intended to reduce the cash element. The « normal » rate for an award on BA in band 1 (<650 miles) is still 4500 avios peak time or 4000 avios off peak, which has been unchanged since that system was introduced.
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Old Jul 5, 20, 3:47 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I think you are correct on the second point, though it still doesn't make sense for the avios difference. The OP is confusing because the question contradicts the description in the situation in the next sentence (bolding mine) so I think that the OP needs to clarify.



In short:

- Upgrading a RFS means you booked a RFS award ticket and then decide to upgrade its class of travel: in effect, this will normally be effected as a cancel and rebook by the way. In that case, you'll indeed pay the difference in RFS award level and taxes at whatever rates you choose plus the relevant cancel/change fees.

- Upgrading a cash ticket to a higher class: this is quite different obviously but should still be based on the standard avios rate, not the avios+£1 rate so it seems to me that the OP has been overcharged.
Originally Posted by nufnuf77 View Post
then it doesn’t make sense, it should be max 4500 avios to upgrade, the agent probably made a mistake,
Originally Posted by nufnuf77 View Post
I buy and upgrade things almost weekly, and have never had a situation that i wouldnt have been charged the old difference (eg RFS usual banding +17.5/25 rates)
Thanks for all the responses. For clarity:

- I bought a revenue ticket online (N Class so upgradeable) for LHR-MUC which is Band 1;
- I UuA's through MMB and was charged 5,750 Avios + £13.
- The 'Standard' Off Peak difference between ET and CE for Band 1 is 3,750 Avios at the £17.50/£25 RFS Tax band level.
- Upgrading by MMB now increases both the Avios and Tax from 'Standard' to the new 'trial' and poor value £1 RFS rates.
- Looks to me like a complete change to charging bands by stealth
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Old Jul 5, 20, 4:09 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
Nope, the rates you mention in your post above are still those intended to reduce the cash element. The « normal » rate for an award on BA in band 1 (<650 miles) is still 4500 avios peak time or 4000 avios off peak, which has been unchanged since that system was introduced.
What source is there for the “normal” rate. If BA have changed the normal rate from 7750 to 14250 and the RFS fee from £25 to £0.50, how would you know about it except by observing the changes that the OP is reporting?
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