wmaciej

Of course that as well.
I am now writing in to Executive Club having had a long and unhelpful conversation with an agent and supervisor refused to take my call.

Does anyone have contact to the person looking after GGLs and could DM me?

Globaliser

I don't think that there's any "should be 7,750" about it any more. The "should be" price is the new base price of 15,000 Avios. If you are booking it as an RFS, you then have the option to reduce the base price by paying a higher RFS fee.

A week or so ago, I did an analysis of the knock-on effects in these posts:

• Your guide to spending Avios | 2021 edition
• Your guide to spending Avios | 2021 edition

The upshot is, I think, that this is a stealth increase that BA successfully got past everyone by making us look the other way, distracted by the dazzling array of new mix-and-match price points.

wmaciej

I stand by my "should be". The agents I spoke to continue referring to LHR-AMS as band 1 flight. If we agree that peak band 1 sector is now 9,750 in Y, band 2 is 12,750 in Y and band 3 is 15,250 in Y, how is this logically stack up to band 4 being 12,500 avios in Y?

Globaliser

Don't shoot the messenger!

I suspect that BA's answer would be because if you're comparing like with like it's:
Zone 1: 9,750 + £0.50
Zone 2: 12,750 + £0.50
Zone 3: 15,250 + £0.50
Zone 4: 12,500 + £159.52

wmaciej

And then there is the argument of zones on non-BA metal, where the avios pricing is correct...

Globaliser

But you don't get those for a flat £0.50, IIRC. And the numbers of Avios required is higher even than the number required for a £17.50 / £25.00 RFS fee on BA.

ETA:

For an example in Zone 3 peak economy (as there are no off-peak rates on other airlines):
15,250 + £0.50 (new BA base rate)
10,000 + £17.50 (old BA base rate)
11,000 + £91.20 (SYD-AKL one-way on QF)

So it's hard to point to anything from non-BA awards that logically compels the conclusion that on BA it "should be" 10,000 rather than 15,250.

wmaciej

I'd add:
11,000 + £4.10 (LAX-DFW one way on AA)
11,000 + £24.20 (NRT-HKG one way on JL/CX)
11,000 + £41.80 (DOH-CAI one way on QR)
11,000 + £38.40 (KUL-CMB one way on UL)

I think we should be comparing non-RFS prices - because ultimately these feed into connecting flight options. In the AMS-LHR example we're looking at 9,250 avios + $44.91, in opposite direction it's $55.69 "taxes".


By calling the avois price points with £0.50 the new “standard” price, BA have nearly doubled the prices of short-hauls on their own metal and is effectively penalising us for flying BA as opposed to partners on connecting itineraries where one cannot ask for the "old" prices.

A couple of examples:
AMS-DXB
BA off-peak J: 65,000 avios + £189.0 (was 57,750)
BA peak J: 76,250 Avios + £189.02 (was 69,000)
RJ J: 60,750 Avios + £164.10
QR J: 74,500 Avios + £154.70

FRA-DXB will be an even better illustration, as FRA-AMM is band 3 and FRA-DOH is band 4:
BA off-peak J: 65,000 Avios + £221.25 (was 57,750)
BA peak J : 76,250 Avios + £221.25 (was 69,000)
RJ J: 44,000 Avios + £186.80
QR J: 51,250 Avios + £188.50

Typically airlines encourage to redeem miles on their own services over partners, but BA is doing the opposite. Considering they pay hard cash for booking on partner airlines, I wonder what genius came up with this!

wmaciej

It gets better. MAD-LHR-JFK in J:

BA+BA off-peak: 70,000 Avios + £ 239.42
IB+BA off-peak: 63,500 Avios + £ 238.14

BA+BA peak: 82,250 Avios + £ 239.42
IB+BA peak: 75,750 Avios + £ 238.14

Lesson of the day: fly partners, save avios. Well done, BA, well done.

Globaliser

Indeed, as I pointed out in the second of my posts in the other thread. But I think you get all of that from comparing BA prices before and after the change. It was a successful stealth devaluation, and I fear that trying to argue that the old prices are what they "should be" would be like being the proverbial King Canute (however unfair that reference might be to the real man).

wmaciej

I think the example of Madrid feeder above shows very clearly that something is seriously messed up there. I'm quite tempted to see how they would defend paying higher avios price for flying BA metal over IB metal (which in J would be much nicer anyway)

Prospero

The MAD-LHR redemption rates do appear messed up. This is one route where IB metal was previously priced at BA rates. I’m struggling to understand the logic behind the recent changes

wmaciej

I’m sure that we’d see similar anomalies with HEL and TXL if BA didn’t drop Finland and AirBerlin didn’t fold. MAD-LHR is the only like-for-like I can think of.

Tafflyer

This is due to the BAEC error I have been harping on about for over a year now. Short-Haul flights when combined with a Long-Haul flight are priced at the “trial” higher Avios rate which would normally be charged when waiving most of the RFS fee, but still charging full taxes and fees.

The IB flight here MAD-LHR is priced at 13,500
The BA flight MAD-LHR is priced at 20,000
The BA flight LHR-JFK is priced at 50,000

BA charges the “zero money” Avios rate for the Short-Haul for which you are paying full taxes anyway.

PS. Checking ba.com shows me that BA have just removed this anomoly. They now charge the increased rate for IB flights too. It’s amazing that the error in their favour has not been corrected in 15 months yet the error in our favour has been closed in under a week.

Confus

Strictly speaking, AGL pays cold hard cash to whichever airline is flown by the passenger, not BA. There are some cases where the amount they give to a partner is actually lower than the amount they would have to give to BA for the same route.

That said, joined-up thinking would of course suggest that it’s better to keep the money within the Group... but as we know, IAG doesn’t always lend itself to joined-up thinking.

Tafflyer

The MAD-LHR-JFK example above also shows an incorrect amount for taxes, fees and charges when booking a next day connection in LHR. It charges APD even when the connection is under 24 hours.