BA refunded my money...and I didn't want them too!
Jul 6, 2020, 5:55 am
#31
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Newly,
Others on here have found that BA is not very good at sending you everything under SAR. I can't find the thread right now, but basically some others have known what to look for, and have had to be persistent to get all the data/info.
Google BA and Subject Access Request. There are a number of FT threads on it. One specifically talks about trying to get records of phone calls.
Others on here have found that BA is not very good at sending you everything under SAR. I can't find the thread right now, but basically some others have known what to look for, and have had to be persistent to get all the data/info.
Google BA and Subject Access Request. There are a number of FT threads on it. One specifically talks about trying to get records of phone calls.
Jul 6, 2020, 3:00 pm
#32
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 681
Newly,
Others on here have found that BA is not very good at sending you everything under SAR. I can't find the thread right now, but basically some others have known what to look for, and have had to be persistent to get all the data/info.
Google BA and Subject Access Request. There are a number of FT threads on it. One specifically talks about trying to get records of phone calls.
Others on here have found that BA is not very good at sending you everything under SAR. I can't find the thread right now, but basically some others have known what to look for, and have had to be persistent to get all the data/info.
Google BA and Subject Access Request. There are a number of FT threads on it. One specifically talks about trying to get records of phone calls.
Jul 6, 2020, 3:06 pm
#33
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I guess it comes down to which takes precedence, when the package holiday regulations and EU261 clash. BAH have decided that the Holiday does, I don’t know if it’s been tested anywhere. I don’t know of any specific provision within EU261 that decides this when the Holiday and Airline companies are branches of the same parent company.
Any right to compensation or price reduction under this Directive shall not affect the rights of travellers under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004, Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007, Regulation (EC) No 392/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council (20), Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010 and Regulation (EU) No 181/2011, and under international conventions. Travellers shall be entitled to present claims under this Directive and under those Regulations and international conventions. Compensation or price reduction granted under this Directive and the compensation or price reduction granted under those Regulations and international conventions shall be deducted from each other in order to avoid overcompensation.
Given the extensive commentary that the Directive is intended to extend the rights of travellers on package holidays it would be perverse if a Court were to find that the Directive trumps EU261.
Jul 6, 2020, 3:41 pm
#34
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Interesting point that has been exercising me since you made it. I think I have found the answer in that Article 14(5) of EU 2015/2302 which is the Package and Linked Holiday Directive provides:
Any right to compensation or price reduction under this Directive shall not affect the rights of travellers under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004, Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007, Regulation (EC) No 392/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council (20), Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010 and Regulation (EU) No 181/2011, and under international conventions. Travellers shall be entitled to present claims under this Directive and under those Regulations and international conventions. Compensation or price reduction granted under this Directive and the compensation or price reduction granted under those Regulations and international conventions shall be deducted from each other in order to avoid overcompensation.
Given the extensive commentary that the Directive is intended to extend the rights of travellers on package holidays it would be perverse if a Court were to find that the Directive trumps EU261.
Any right to compensation or price reduction under this Directive shall not affect the rights of travellers under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004, Regulation (EC) No 1371/2007, Regulation (EC) No 392/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council (20), Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010 and Regulation (EU) No 181/2011, and under international conventions. Travellers shall be entitled to present claims under this Directive and under those Regulations and international conventions. Compensation or price reduction granted under this Directive and the compensation or price reduction granted under those Regulations and international conventions shall be deducted from each other in order to avoid overcompensation.
Given the extensive commentary that the Directive is intended to extend the rights of travellers on package holidays it would be perverse if a Court were to find that the Directive trumps EU261.
Last edited by KARFA; Jul 6, 2020 at 4:33 pm
Jul 7, 2020, 2:43 am
#35
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to be honest in your case I don’t see any clash which causes an issue. There are provisions for automatic refunds in the package holiday regulations, but as noted in post 20 that is only after a passenger has failed to respond to two notices of the change. Clearly that wasn’t the case for you. Effectively what BAH did was not compatible with either EC261 or the package holiday regulations.
Jul 7, 2020, 5:24 am
#36
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Astonishing response from BA today:
As we are working under the situation of a global pandemic which is force mejur, I am afraid i am unable to agree with the below.
Your booking has been cancelled and refunded and I am afraid there is nothing further I can help with regarding this, The flight cancellations were made not due to operation needs but due to the Foriegn and commonwealth office advisory against all but essential travel.
I am sorry that this may not be the answer you wanted and I am also sorry that you have been effected by the pandemic.
Even ignoring the spelling mistakes and typos this has left me speechless. I'm sure the many millions of customers seeking refunds instead of FTVs would be interested to know of BA's reliance on force majeure and FCO advice.
BA also ignored my SAR request.
As we are working under the situation of a global pandemic which is force mejur, I am afraid i am unable to agree with the below.
Your booking has been cancelled and refunded and I am afraid there is nothing further I can help with regarding this, The flight cancellations were made not due to operation needs but due to the Foriegn and commonwealth office advisory against all but essential travel.
I am sorry that this may not be the answer you wanted and I am also sorry that you have been effected by the pandemic.
Even ignoring the spelling mistakes and typos this has left me speechless. I'm sure the many millions of customers seeking refunds instead of FTVs would be interested to know of BA's reliance on force majeure and FCO advice.
BA also ignored my SAR request.
Last edited by Newly Wed; Jul 7, 2020 at 5:25 am Reason: Typo
Jul 7, 2020, 5:33 am
#37
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Thanks Karfa. I don't suppose you know the source of the requirement for two notices of change. I didn't see it either in the EU Directive or the UK regulations that implement it. But is mentioned at paragraph 33 of the HM Gov guidance note at: https://assets.publishing.service.go...tions-2018.pdf.
There are provisions to change under Section 11 which requires two notices before auto cancel by the operator. Also under section 13 if there are unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances the organiser can terminate and refund.
Jul 7, 2020, 5:34 am
#38
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BA claim force majeure and that they are bound by FCO travel advisory
Mods: I already have a separate thread running about my cancelled holiday but I thought my most recent email from BA may be useful to others. Feel free to merge if not appropriate.
I have just received the email below about my cancelled BA Holiday (typos are BA's):
As we are working under the situation of a global pandemic which is force mejur, I am afraid i am unable to agree with the below.
Your booking has been cancelled and refunded and I am afraid there is nothing further I can help with regarding this, The flight cancellations were made not due to operation needs but due to the Foriegn and commonwealth office advisory against all but essential travel.
I am sorry that this may not be the answer you wanted and I am also sorry that you have been effected by the pandemic.
I am sure it will be music to the ears of all who have unwillingly accepted FTVs or who are unable to cancel without penalty to know that in BA's eyes the FCO advisory overrides BA's T&Cs.
I have just received the email below about my cancelled BA Holiday (typos are BA's):
As we are working under the situation of a global pandemic which is force mejur, I am afraid i am unable to agree with the below.
Your booking has been cancelled and refunded and I am afraid there is nothing further I can help with regarding this, The flight cancellations were made not due to operation needs but due to the Foriegn and commonwealth office advisory against all but essential travel.
I am sorry that this may not be the answer you wanted and I am also sorry that you have been effected by the pandemic.
I am sure it will be music to the ears of all who have unwillingly accepted FTVs or who are unable to cancel without penalty to know that in BA's eyes the FCO advisory overrides BA's T&Cs.
Last edited by Newly Wed; Jul 7, 2020 at 5:40 am Reason: Typo
Jul 7, 2020, 8:15 am
#42
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Just to be clear, reading the other thread for context, your flights were cancelled and BA has refunded them while you wish other accommodation under Sec. 8 (rebooking rights) of EC 261/2004.
But, the European Commission has issued Guidance in April making it clear that under the circumstances of the pandemic, offering only a refund is acceptable. The force majeure term seems a bit silly, but in reading the Guidance, without using that term, it describes such a situation. So, not likely meaningful.
But, the European Commission has issued Guidance in April making it clear that under the circumstances of the pandemic, offering only a refund is acceptable. The force majeure term seems a bit silly, but in reading the Guidance, without using that term, it describes such a situation. So, not likely meaningful.
Jul 7, 2020, 8:27 am
#44
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Just to be clear, reading the other thread for context, your flights were cancelled and BA has refunded them while you wish other accommodation under Sec. 8 (rebooking rights) of EC 261/2004.
But, the European Commission has issued Guidance in April making it clear that under the circumstances of the pandemic, offering only a refund is acceptable. The force majeure term seems a bit silly, but in reading the Guidance, without using that term, it describes such a situation. So, not likely meaningful.
But, the European Commission has issued Guidance in April making it clear that under the circumstances of the pandemic, offering only a refund is acceptable. The force majeure term seems a bit silly, but in reading the Guidance, without using that term, it describes such a situation. So, not likely meaningful.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/IP_20_485 see Interpretative Guidelines on EU passenger rights regulations in the context of the developing situation with Covid-19
2.2 As regards re-routing, the circumstances of the COVID-19 outbreak may have an incidence on the right to choose re-routing at the “earliest opportunity”. Carriers may find it impossible to re-route the passenger to the intended destination within a short period of time. Moreover, it may not be clear for some time when re-routing will become possible. This situation may for example arise where a Member State suspends flights or stops trains, buses, coaches or ships arriving from certain countries. Depending on the case, therefore, the “earliest opportunity” for re-routing may be considerably delayed and/or subject to considerable uncertainty. Reimbursement of the ticket price or a re-routing at a later stage “at the passenger’s convenience” might therefore be preferable for the passenger. Details are set out further below for each transport mode.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...n/QANDA_20_870
In the case of a cancellation by the carrier, passengers have the choice, to be offered reimbursement or re-routing. As re-routing is hardly applicable under the present circumstances, the choice is mostly about possible different forms of reimbursement.
Last edited by KARFA; Jul 7, 2020 at 8:33 am