BA Recall Staff from 26 Jun [the BA staff/unions/redundancies thread]
Nov 3, 2020, 12:57 am
#1366
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A good manager can do this while still using a seniority based system.
Nov 3, 2020, 2:37 am
#1367
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 876
Seniority only works when there are enough people coming through the system, so that those at the bottom can see their way up the seniority ladder. That’s unlikely to happen for some while.
Also, in this case, it benefits a certain proportion of staff. Those at the top of the ladder (WW and EF long servers) will see no change. Those at the bottom of WW and EF will suddenly be thrust from the bottom of their seniority ladder (within those fleets) to fairly near the top in this ‘single fleet’. Those in MF will go from an equal system to being at the bottom of the ladder and will continue to be so for some while.
It’s fairly easy to see why some want it and some don’t!
Also, in this case, it benefits a certain proportion of staff. Those at the top of the ladder (WW and EF long servers) will see no change. Those at the bottom of WW and EF will suddenly be thrust from the bottom of their seniority ladder (within those fleets) to fairly near the top in this ‘single fleet’. Those in MF will go from an equal system to being at the bottom of the ladder and will continue to be so for some while.
It’s fairly easy to see why some want it and some don’t!
Nov 3, 2020, 2:51 am
#1368
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
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Nov 3, 2020, 2:53 am
#1369
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So it’s ok for those ex EF and WW crew that have been at the bottom for at least 10 years not to have a choice even though they are more experienced than any of the ex MF crew?
I know there won’t be any new entrants for the next year but there will be and have a seniority system as apposed to a who shouts loudest is fairer to the majority and better for the customer.
I know there won’t be any new entrants for the next year but there will be and have a seniority system as apposed to a who shouts loudest is fairer to the majority and better for the customer.
Nov 3, 2020, 3:04 am
#1370
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
Some like their rigid ways of working and advantages based on legacy privileges. Change is generally quite hard for a lot of people and understandable why there’s opposition to it.
Hopefully such practices will be rightfully dissipated going forward. Seniority being one of them. There is no reason an ex-MF crew member who is First trained, received Golden Tickets along the way too, cannot provide great service as a 25 year serving ex-WW crew member. End of the day a good crew member and service does come down to the person’s character, personality and life outlook/perspective, not how many years they’ve served.
Hopefully such practices will be rightfully dissipated going forward. Seniority being one of them. There is no reason an ex-MF crew member who is First trained, received Golden Tickets along the way too, cannot provide great service as a 25 year serving ex-WW crew member. End of the day a good crew member and service does come down to the person’s character, personality and life outlook/perspective, not how many years they’ve served.
Last edited by AirbusA350; Nov 3, 2020 at 3:11 am
Nov 3, 2020, 3:17 am
#1371
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Le Club Accor Hotels Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 61
Thought I would give my experience of what has happened in the last few days as I'm lucky to still be operating as a senior crew member.
My first flight in the new world was on Sunday, I was the IFL and I had 3 other crew, 1 ex-MF the other 2 ex-EF. One of the ex-EF was a Purser who had been demoted back to main crew. Positions were allocated in the briefing room, no seniority used. I simply asked who wanted to work were. I'm sorry to disappoint some, there were no tantrums or rants everyone was happy just to be back to work and have a job.
Monday was long haul, mixed crew again, some ex-WW some ex-MF. The IFM had preallocated positions before the briefing with no seniority used, so we had ex-MF and ex-WW in club and the same in WT. (operating a route with no 1st). Again no complaints or tantrums.
BA have been very clear seniority is not to be used to allocate positions.
My first flight in the new world was on Sunday, I was the IFL and I had 3 other crew, 1 ex-MF the other 2 ex-EF. One of the ex-EF was a Purser who had been demoted back to main crew. Positions were allocated in the briefing room, no seniority used. I simply asked who wanted to work were. I'm sorry to disappoint some, there were no tantrums or rants everyone was happy just to be back to work and have a job.
Monday was long haul, mixed crew again, some ex-WW some ex-MF. The IFM had preallocated positions before the briefing with no seniority used, so we had ex-MF and ex-WW in club and the same in WT. (operating a route with no 1st). Again no complaints or tantrums.
BA have been very clear seniority is not to be used to allocate positions.
Nov 3, 2020, 3:26 am
#1372
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Not true, BA has not given any such instructions, they have left the whole mess for the IFM to manage on the day.
Nov 3, 2020, 3:45 am
#1373
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Le Club Accor Hotels Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 61
Can I Help you, I gave a great deal of respect for you based on your postings on this board so please don't think I'm being rude or trying to stir things.
My information came from an email from my Union on 28th October which states fleet management have confirmed that allocation of positions from 1 Nov will not be seniority based.
.
My information came from an email from my Union on 28th October which states fleet management have confirmed that allocation of positions from 1 Nov will not be seniority based.
.
Nov 3, 2020, 3:55 am
#1374
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With respect that is not what you said, please share with us what BA have instructed you to do?
Nov 3, 2020, 4:20 am
#1376
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As I said it doesn’t say how positions should be allocated and it’s up to the ICCM, for example the ICCM could say they want the most experienced crew to work in First and CW for the benefit of the customer and thereby still using seniority.
I know two ex CSDs who have used this successfully.
I know two ex CSDs who have used this successfully.
Nov 3, 2020, 4:36 am
#1377
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Le Club Accor Hotels Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 61
Cabin safety sent out an email last Thursday and this topic was covered. Seniority wasn't listed as one of the points to be considered when allocating positions.
Given this and the Union email, to me it all points to no seniority when allocating positions.
Given this and the Union email, to me it all points to no seniority when allocating positions.
Nov 3, 2020, 4:41 am
#1378
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But that exactly what I have said, “to me” is just not clear enough is it, crew management have to you to " Manage it on the day "?
Last edited by Can I help you; Nov 3, 2020 at 4:48 am
Nov 3, 2020, 4:47 am
#1379
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 91
Seniority numbers and dates of joining are no longer featured on the ABS. The SCCM will allocate but encouraged to take preferences.
Pleased to hear crew are embracing it - that’s the experience of my crew friends too. Maybe it’ll all be ok! Who knows.
Pleased to hear crew are embracing it - that’s the experience of my crew friends too. Maybe it’ll all be ok! Who knows.
Nov 3, 2020, 5:02 am
#1380
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: BA Silver, Le Club Accor Hotels Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 61
I think we are spiliting hairs here. The days of an IFM going down the list allocating positions on seniority as a requirement due to working arrangements are gone. As I said the
the email from Cabin safety and the Unions have made that clear.
If like your ex-CSD's have done the IFM could decide on the day to allocate positions by looking at crew experience in flying years, however they need to ensure an even spread of experience across all cabins
the email from Cabin safety and the Unions have made that clear.
If like your ex-CSD's have done the IFM could decide on the day to allocate positions by looking at crew experience in flying years, however they need to ensure an even spread of experience across all cabins