A P Yu

Once they are one group working to one agreement, so November first, BA won’t entertain agreeing things with two unions. Hopefully BA just tell Unite To work out which union represent that single workforce.

Will100

Any examples?

BOH

Probably if you search hard enough. I didn't provide the examples originally, I just remember a number of them being posted

OhLordy

indeed, there were “agreements” that to outsiders would seem not to be line with modern thinking. But make no mistake - these were very clear agreements between BA and their employees representatives. They were negotiated agreements. BA “management” were part of this process and must take some of the responsibility.
BA still has plenty of these types of agreement - but eradicating them all would be very interesting when it involves employees a lot further up the food chain! Level playing field comes to mind!!!

Confus

That’s interesting, personally I’d have thought the opposite, that it would be in BA’s interests to retain two unions, so that in any dispute they only fall out with one at a time (and can keep the operation going). It would be easy enough to have a legacy/MF distinction, particularly with the pay differences.

sxc

This was the question I was wondering upthread. Does BASSA (and MFU) have a selfish motive in also trying to keep two branches alive in the future and are negotiating accordingly?

Waterhorse

A small gain, only on times of conflict. In the day to day running, it would mean differing trip constructions and only some crew able to do certain routes, problems with standbys or changes, or you have to roster everyone to the most restrictive agreement which is inefficient. Common sense dictates a single scheduling/rostering agreement, negotiated and agreed with a single union branch who then go on to represent the workforce.

BOH

Yes it always takes two to tango but it would have been the union / staff that would have demanded them. Yes, BA would have then agreed to them but probably had a gun held to their head as at time the pendulum was not swinging their way.

This is how it all works in these negotiations, at different times and circumstances the balance of power is either with the airline or the union. BA would be barking mad not to try and sweep away petty restrictive practices now the pendulum is right up against the stops in their favour.

No doubt at some point that pendulum will go the other way again when demand returns but I don’t see that happening in the next 5–10 years. Then we can all look forward to strikes again that are carefully optimised to hit the passengers at the start of their summer holidays. Cest la Vie

A P Yu

Its an opportunity to remind the Union who's in charge.
Pay will be the only difference going forward - and BA will only want to negotiate pay rises with one group - if that union wants to argue amongst itself then they can feel free.

Maintaining two sets of Union reps is a ball ache too for the airline

And if there's just one Union and you want to do some crew searches - non of that faffing about looking for the right Union Rep to be present.

Imagine how easy agreeing this new agreement would be for BA with just one group - multiply that then for every decision.

Littlegirl

Some of you seem to like to rubbish unions no matter what. You also comment on internal company agreements with very little actual detailed knowledge of the subject you pretend to know about.

Unions in general are very important for the working conditions and pay of many UK workers and it is a great shame in the UK that they are demonised in the way they are. Most other European countries have a much better understanding of the important role unions play and companies and union work well together and unions are not demonised in their National Press.

Some of you would benefit from taking a look at UK social and Industrial history and the Labour movement and the improvements it made for many working class people including many of your ancestors.

A P Yu

Experience with Unions is very mixed in the UK I agree. Some have been dealing with them for decades and some not so much.

Ancient Observer

Littlegirl has a fair point about the past, and UK industrial history.

However, in 2020 with many sectors in crisis, I believe that TUs need to work with employers and customers more to create, and not destroy jobs for people.

Taking slots from BA, which will presumably be sold off to the only buyers available - Chinese airlines - looks to me to be destroying jobs.

In the mid 70s, TUs in the UK had about 13 million members. In 2019, TUs in the UK had approx 6 million members. - Roughly speaking, two thirds of them were in the public sector.

BOH

You are right, they do have a role to play. But unions do have an appalling reputation in the UK and also to a lesser extent in France and Italy. From where I sit this poor reputation is entirely of their own making because so often their demands are wholly unrealistic and many seem to be led by ultra left-wing militants with a huge personal agenda too. You only have to look at that long running dispute on Southern Trains regarding some driver-only operation which in a nutshell the union continues to resists it as "unsafe" but many other UK train operators already operate it safely under near identical circumstances. Multiple independent risk assessments have been carried out and do not support the unions claims.

In Germany, unions are generally an integral part of the workplace and are treated differently by both employees and employers. The difference is there is engagement and they also seem to focus on the bigger picture and more medium to long term whereas UK unions seem to be more about petty disputes and preserving outdated restrictive practices.

As to our UK history and how unions improved things such as pay and conditions, yes you are right. However there also a number of industries where it is generally agreed that unions largely destroyed them by refusing to adapt, modernise and recognise that in the face of new, leaner competition that things had to change.

Dave_C

Pre-mixed fleet, I believe that there were two unions for cabin crew, CC89 and BASSA, so there is precedent for dealing with multiple TUs.

HarryHolden68

Historically, I agree.
In my lifetime, I cannot say Arthur Scargill did much for me or my colleagues while living the life of Riley in a union funded London house.
This is an extreme example of the worst of union intransigence but Len McClusky has a similar modus operandi - "I'm alright Jack"