Thank You & Goodbye
Jun 21, 2020, 12:34 pm
#76
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 699
In that case I think it should have said #Dictionary betrayel 
betrayal it was
Jun 22, 2020, 4:17 am
#78
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,612
Jun 22, 2020, 5:30 am
#79
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
Just to clear up one thing. Not all staff got a VR offer, some areas did not, in some areas it has been targeted only at legacy contracts. Other areas all staff got an offer, it varies a lot for area to area.
Also in some areas the offer is very similar to statutory redundancy + pay in lieu of notice although as mentioned above it is all tax free whereas with statutory redundancy, the pay in lieu of notice is taxable. So in some areas, the offer was slightly enhanced, whereas other areas it was almost identical to SR.
Also in some areas the offer is very similar to statutory redundancy + pay in lieu of notice although as mentioned above it is all tax free whereas with statutory redundancy, the pay in lieu of notice is taxable. So in some areas, the offer was slightly enhanced, whereas other areas it was almost identical to SR.
Jun 22, 2020, 8:45 am
#80
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 709
As an outsider it appears to me that the unions not negotiating have no grounds to complain about anything. Why are members still paying unions dues when the union is doing nothing to save jobs or get a better redundancy offer, which to many of the general public is currently a lot better than they will ever get.
Jun 22, 2020, 11:14 am
#81
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
THIS.
This should have been handled better. And in my view as a former BA manager I lay the blame at the feet of both entities - BA management and TUs - but mostly on BA's side, for a simple reason: TU reps aren't idiots. I've worked with enough of them, although in Operations, HQ and Engineering, not Crew or Pilots. There are TU reps that can be strong-headed, stubborn, but by far and large they are smart folks with a good grasp of their business. I once did a project on the ramp which involved some go-look-see. TU came out with us and made recommendations. As they said, "So that none of you lot get any ideas of outsourcing us to Menzies". And improvements were made. Where there has been intelligent negotiations and a good leadership, changes were made. I look at BAMG, over in Glasgow: chronically bad, late, expensive. A review comes in and says: "Hey BA, you can be cheaper if you just outsource the whole shebang to LH Technik in Malta, Milan, whatever". BAMG got together - managers, employees, TU - and made changes. Painful at times. And BAMG's still here. Same for Gatters Engineering. But the key difference between those examples and the current situation was the approach chosen to start off the conversation by BA. It was open, honest and clear. People in Glasgow, for instance, were told how more expensive their operation was compared to LHT, and where they needed to go. It was known, and the mantra - I saw it in LGW, I was working on a project there with them - was "let's work together to win our business back".
Ever since Alex has ran the shop Industrial Relations have been dire. Mixed Fleet striking, balloted twice (for a new fleet for Pete's sake!); WW and EF balloting; Pilots going on strike! Never thought I'd see the day of a Nigel on strike and yet here we are. The one difference was Engineering, but mainly because what happens in TBC stays in TBC and Waterside forgets it's even there. I don't mean to say they'd all be dancing off into the sunset. TU consultations are messy, are exhausting, are frustrating but... a different approach, dictated once again by a better leadership, would've made a difference. Since 2017, with MF. Instead they sowed wind and reaped tempest as my grandad used to say. The way the 2017 MF negotiations and strike were handled was appalling, and it all went downhill from there.
This should have been handled better. And in my view as a former BA manager I lay the blame at the feet of both entities - BA management and TUs - but mostly on BA's side, for a simple reason: TU reps aren't idiots. I've worked with enough of them, although in Operations, HQ and Engineering, not Crew or Pilots. There are TU reps that can be strong-headed, stubborn, but by far and large they are smart folks with a good grasp of their business. I once did a project on the ramp which involved some go-look-see. TU came out with us and made recommendations. As they said, "So that none of you lot get any ideas of outsourcing us to Menzies". And improvements were made. Where there has been intelligent negotiations and a good leadership, changes were made. I look at BAMG, over in Glasgow: chronically bad, late, expensive. A review comes in and says: "Hey BA, you can be cheaper if you just outsource the whole shebang to LH Technik in Malta, Milan, whatever". BAMG got together - managers, employees, TU - and made changes. Painful at times. And BAMG's still here. Same for Gatters Engineering. But the key difference between those examples and the current situation was the approach chosen to start off the conversation by BA. It was open, honest and clear. People in Glasgow, for instance, were told how more expensive their operation was compared to LHT, and where they needed to go. It was known, and the mantra - I saw it in LGW, I was working on a project there with them - was "let's work together to win our business back".
Ever since Alex has ran the shop Industrial Relations have been dire. Mixed Fleet striking, balloted twice (for a new fleet for Pete's sake!); WW and EF balloting; Pilots going on strike! Never thought I'd see the day of a Nigel on strike and yet here we are. The one difference was Engineering, but mainly because what happens in TBC stays in TBC and Waterside forgets it's even there. I don't mean to say they'd all be dancing off into the sunset. TU consultations are messy, are exhausting, are frustrating but... a different approach, dictated once again by a better leadership, would've made a difference. Since 2017, with MF. Instead they sowed wind and reaped tempest as my grandad used to say. The way the 2017 MF negotiations and strike were handled was appalling, and it all went downhill from there.
Present BA management direction and style is arrogant and dictatorial. If you engage properly with TU, in a collaborative style and no hidden agenda, then you will get results.
Trust me, I am no fan of Len and the big boys/girls in the TU. My view is that they have been brought in to cry foul, very loudly, at what really was presented as a fait accompli with no wriggle room to get to a position where real negotiation and compromise can take place. Not saying they are there yet but note BA’s position has shifted.
Jun 22, 2020, 12:12 pm
#82
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,578
As an outsider it appears to me that the unions not negotiating have no grounds to complain about anything. Why are members still paying unions dues when the union is doing nothing to save jobs or get a better redundancy offer, which to many of the general public is currently a lot better than they will ever get.
The problem here is not the unions. It is the UK employment law that lets BA get away with it. You only need to compare the BA situation with what is going on with IB in Spain.