george77300

It sure does.

(26^3 for Spain, 25^4 for U.K.)

dylanks

Per today's news it looks like this is sadly not a rumour.

BAeuro

Well now that we have lost the 3 747 retro liveries, I hope BEA stays around a bit longer. With the A321s at risk and the A319s being the right size for today’s demand, maybe they’ll get another few years out of it.

For now it remains one of the few left stored in Bournemouth.

BAeuro

Any update on BA’s short haul fleet plans (retirements or numbers)?

cornishsimon

So, I see that Cityflyer is having a bit of a fleet re-shuffle.

down to x2 remaining E170s

but.......
E190 now stands at 18 + 3 second handers on the way.

have I missed something ? Assume theres some sort of expansion plan ?
cs

Sigwx

Now that ‘scope clause’ is dead and buried you can expect to see a refleet and expansion of BACF into LGW as the industry rebuilds. It’s become abundantly clear from the current management committee that they don’t want to be in LGW other than for a bit of long haul leisure. But who knows what the future holds. There might not even be a BA by 2021 the rate things are going with the politics of optics killing off aviation week by week, 24 hour notice persons after 24 hour notice period. Have the Spanish hospitals been overwhelmed yet?

BAeuro

So do you honestly think BACF could make an appearance at LGW?

As for LGW Short Haul, is it pretty much guaranteed that it won’t be coming back? If so, does that mean those aircraft currently at LGW are all set to leave the fleet?

skipness1E

No point unless BA CityFlyer are markedly lower cost than BA LGW. The retraining costs from Embraer to Airbus aren’t exactly cheap given everyone needs retrained to replace the cheapest of existing BA pilots. There’s zero case for the Embraer at Gatwick, flying Embraers killed flybe at LGW as the pricing policy changed to favour larger aircraft, so that would also need changing, although that’s not unlikely given the collapse in demand.

Sigwx

It won’t be airbus they are flying, those leased leaky gas buckets known as the G-CRAPs (sorry G-Gats) will all be sent back to lessors. Scope limited the number of seats any non-mainline entity can fly. The 190s had seats removed to maintain this rule set. Now it’s been voted away BACF can go and purchase a more fuel and LCY efficient type that wasn’t originally Airbus but now is, or similar, and fly that in and out of LCY. LGW will probably be never more than a 130 ish seat market place going forward and thus with a lower cost base in terms of staff unit costs already, and single fleet, it’s only a matter of time now. In a sense, mainline pilots have voted away SHAG fleet to BACF.

As for pricing, we will undoubtedly see GAL drop fees.

BrianDromey

Is that true? I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but would be a very big development, if true.
Back in the days of the MAN and BHX bases, were the 737 crews on regional contracts, or the same T&C's as the London crews?

skipness1E

Makes sense except for the bit about the CAPEX of buying a whole new fleet for LCY. I don’t see the business case in the near future.

Sigwx

They were in effect mainline pilots but working alongside BAR cabin crew colleagues and to all intents and purposes seconded out onto regional terms and conditions. As the BAR business wound down they were absorbed into SHAG and Mainline LHR and the code shares of Maersk et al filled the gap prior to the merging of BRAL, Brymon, Manx and non-pilot/crew elements of CFE, creating BA citiexpress. These were completely different AOC holders merging into one and with a set of pilots not on BA mainline conditions/pay. Flybe purchased this business after it went lo-co with the great willy sell off of ‘06.

The only remaining element of all of this historical regionalisation has been the ex DAN-AIR SHAG unit merged into the previous mainline LGW SH operation there. It has been on transformation after transformation, with all pilots on the BA Master Seniority List but on reduced pay and different terms. All until now of course.

BACF was the effective recreation of the CFE brand by retaining the BACON LCY operation as a BA owned entity. The pilots work for a separate AOC holder on their own terms, conditions and pay.

Sigwx

The argument put forward by management is that the 190s whist seat capped are just not competitive for the LCY operation, especially when pitted against other higher capacity regular types seen at LCY. As things return I’d expect any decision to generate that CAPEX announcement as part of a ‘transformation’ of the product.
Of course all of this is dependant on a gonverment that is not hell bent on eradicating aviation all together, and using former airports as fantastic brownfield redevelopment opportunities.

BrianDromey

I haven't herd of the SHAG unit before, sounds like a fun place to work though.

Have the BA mainline pilots allowed the scope clause for CFE to be negotiated away?

Sigwx

An old nickname for the short haul 737 operation given it was very separate to the DC-10/747/777 and short lived 767 operation there. So good was it, channel 4 wanted to join in.

In effect, yes. A gun has been held at every employee’s head under fire and rehire.