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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:49 am
  #1456  
 
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If the airline fires and start rehiring in batches, would this not also provide a strain on training facilities as certificates etc expire?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:50 am
  #1457  
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Originally Posted by RoyalSwazi
If the airline fires and start rehiring in batches, would this not also provide a strain on training facilities as certificates etc expire?
Certificates expire anyway as the crew have no aircraft to fly.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:50 am
  #1458  
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Originally Posted by Raffles
...rehire them in 12 weeks, you've made a profit AND got a potential future VR liability off your books.
But only if they are available to be re-employed.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 7:56 am
  #1459  
 
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I actually don’t think it will come to that anyway in my area, which is cabin crew.

BA have just outlined how they will be choosing people. They have also said they may consider VR.

So a more likely scenario is that VR will be offered. Those who don’t opt for VR will be invited to apply for the positions and assessed using the criterion they have just set out and then those successful will be offered jobs and the remainder will be made redundant.

I imagine that this process will start at the end of the consultation period.

This is just my opinion of what may happen in my area.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 8:12 am
  #1460  
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Originally Posted by richardwft
Its the airline business were talking about. Comments out of context are pointless.
We are in agreement, but so many on here try to go totally out of context or use an absolute extreme end-of-the-spectrum example and try to pretend it is the general situation, ie a 3am arrival in Lagos is representative of the majority of crew destinations and arrival times down route. It isn't
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 8:24 am
  #1461  
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Originally Posted by richardwft
But only if they are available to be re-employed.
You're right ..... can't remember a hotter employment market than we're going to see between now and Christmas, especially with only 3.5 million other people expected to lose their jobs once the furlough scheme ends according to Rishi .....
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 8:31 am
  #1462  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
I actually dont think it will come to that anyway in my area, which is cabin crew.

BA have just outlined how they will be choosing people. They have also said they may consider VR.

So a more likely scenario is that VR will be offered. Those who dont opt for VR will be invited to apply for the positions and assessed using the criterion they have just set out and then those successful will be offered jobs and the remainder will be made redundant.

I imagine that this process will start at the end of the consultation period.

This is just my opinion of what may happen in my area.
Thanks for the update Littlegirl, that sounds like a possible glimmer of good news I hope. I symphasise with all the staff at BA in these times and I think everyone who posts here does also. There is often a robust exchange of views on FT and I am sure people being couped up by COVID hasn't helped so try not to take some posts too much to heart if you can and thank you for contributing!

I broadly agree that the company needs to make some difficult choices and combining the fleets does make a lot of sense. However, I certainly don't agree with how they are doing it and equally how Unite/GMB have failed to engage, which I can only see resulting in being paid for by the members they represent. Really wishing you and all the staff at BA a reasonable and fair outcome at the end of all this.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 8:39 am
  #1463  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH
But the specific example you gave to illustrate your point of hardship on 24k was the Scouser sleeping in his/her car at LHR before a flight. My point is that is a) an extreme example and b) a personal choice of this person to live in Liverpool and work as CC out of LHR. Totally irrelevant to the salary paid.
Originally Posted by Agent69
Maybe they should buy a house a bit nearer to where they work?
The gist of the post was an answer to another FTer talking about the fact that, by closing WW/EF, BA would also close BASSA and reduce TU power, as well as the fact that you can't strike for long on 24k. My counterpoint is that they might get more issues, such as a united workforce (crew-wise) under a single TU branch and with very little to lose, hence the example of the Scouser cabin crew from 2017. Simplifying even further, "I'm paid peanuts, I sleep in my car, it doesn't make much of a difference if I lose a day's wage for a strike anyway".
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 9:23 am
  #1464  
 
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Originally Posted by gliderpilot
Thanks for the update Littlegirl, that sounds like a possible glimmer of good news I hope. I symphasise with all the staff at BA in these times and I think everyone who posts here does also. There is often a robust exchange of views on FT and I am sure people being couped up by COVID hasn't helped so try not to take some posts too much to heart if you can and thank you for contributing!

I broadly agree that the company needs to make some difficult choices and combining the fleets does make a lot of sense. However, I certainly don't agree with how they are doing it and equally how Unite/GMB have failed to engage, which I can only see resulting in being paid for by the members they represent. Really wishing you and all the staff at BA a reasonable and fair outcome at the end of all this.
It isn’t ideal but I don’t believe any cabin crew believe that we won’t be just one fleet now.

They also have hinted at some kind of soft landing for crew who are having to take a pay cut. They also have offered a new rank to CSLs and Worldclass crew to apply for. They have also offered 1-2-1 consultations for cabin crew to book.

BA have also just sent out another video called ‘together’ along with a feedback link.

My take on all this is that they are going to say they have consulted and I suspect similar 1-2-1 sessions will be offered in other areas.

Once they have ‘consulted’ they will get staff to apply for either VR or a job. Those not successful in the job application would then be made redundant presumably.

Many crew won’t feel able to take these new roles though and so fingers crossed that the VR offer is not too shabby!

These are just my guesses as how it will pan out if the unions do not get involved, I have no knowledge that this will happen, just reading between the lines from what we are now being told.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 9:43 am
  #1465  
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BA was playing hardball and now they’re softening without actual negotiations with the unions?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 9:56 am
  #1466  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
Maybe they should buy a house a bit nearer to where they work?
Great response Agent69! Easy to buy a house closer to LHR for around the same price as a house in Liverpool!
Now, have a think about this.....back in the 90s BA went into Europe on a massive CC recruitment drive. They were desperate for foreign language speakers and was part of the Utopia? project. The aim being to encompass and embrace other cultures and become a truly World airline. They were pretty successful and lured many crew to work for BA. Crucially there was no stipulation or requirement to move to London..had there been then the uptake would have been very low. BA knew and encouraged these crew to live in their home country and commute to U.K. for work. This continues to this day. Little difference really in recruiting people from Liverpool or wherever in U.K.
I wonder what will happen to these people? Mixed flying (SH & LH) will not be an option for them.

I have huge sympathy for ALL current BA staff at the way they are being treated. I point out again that I worked for BA for 32+ years on the ground. My only issue with the TUs is that they must not polarise their views so that it appears to be just about CC. To be slightly controversial....WW and EF CC have known for some years that their T&Cs were in the firing line of WW. Numerous voluntary redundancy schemes have been offered to them and many have taken the hint and gone. The writing is definitely on the wall. Now, if BASSA Injected some realism into some discussions and worked with BA to come up with a final deal..either enhanced VR or buy down to MF T&Cs it may be a game changer?
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 10:07 am
  #1467  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl
I actually dont think it will come to that anyway in my area, which is cabin crew.

BA have just outlined how they will be choosing people. They have also said they may consider VR.

So a more likely scenario is that VR will be offered. Those who dont opt for VR will be invited to apply for the positions and assessed using the criterion they have just set out and then those successful will be offered jobs and the remainder will be made redundant.

I imagine that this process will start at the end of the consultation period.

This is just my opinion of what may happen in my area.
VR as an option, and perhaps early retirement, would go a long way to make the cuts as painless as they can be, although they never can be.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 11:22 am
  #1468  
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Originally Posted by OhLordy
Great response Agent69! Easy to buy a house closer to LHR for around the same price as a house in Liverpool!
Now, have a think about this.....back in the 90’s BA went into Europe on a massive CC recruitment drive. They were desperate for foreign language speakers and was part of the Utopia? project. The aim being to encompass and embrace other cultures and become a truly “World” airline. They were pretty successful and lured many crew to work for BA. Crucially there was no stipulation or requirement to move to London..had there been then the uptake would have been very low. BA knew and encouraged these crew to live in their home country and commute to U.K. for work. This continues to this day. Little difference really in recruiting people from Liverpool or wherever in U.K.?
You are still completely missing the point though. It is surely a matter of personal choice for someone to live in one region and choose to work in another region with all the associated travel cost? No one forced our person in this example to work for BA out of LHR whilst living in Liverpool, it was the choice of this person to do so and presumably they went into it eyes wide open and realised that Liverpool is in fact, nowhere near London?

Additionally, if our example person wanted desperately to be CC then over the last few years there has been a massive expansion in air travel and to the best of my knowledge, other airlines flying out of LPL, MAN, BHX etc also require CC?

It really is not something to either whinge about or to be used as an example in this debate, it is just not relevant.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 12:43 pm
  #1469  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl

I notice that you now all understand that BA are using a fire & rehire threat, since seeing it added to the pilot S188, but none of you have apologised for saying that was not true over and over again.
This is the case for cabin crew, as per the quote you shared, and has now been extended for pilots. This doesn't cover the entire company, and isn't in any other the other letters sent to unite.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 12:46 pm
  #1470  
 
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Originally Posted by OhLordy
Great response Agent69! Easy to buy a house closer to LHR for around the same price as a house in Liverpool!
You could probably buy somewhere in the midlands that would half the travelling, but thats not the point.

If you earn 40k working for WW crew you are entitled to live a 40k lifestyle. If BA come along and say they are cutting the salary to 25k then you can understand the WW member saying I can't survive on that. However, why does somebody from MF accept a job that pays 25k when they need 30k to live on. It's madness.
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