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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 6, 20, 12:39 pm
  #1366  
 
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Originally Posted by Sigwx View Post
As the title says unless BALPA agrees to BAís demands essentially.
Iím sad to read this. Iím finding BAs behaviours hard to deal and even comment on in a meaningful way. It is quite shocking.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 1:09 pm
  #1367  
 
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Originally Posted by McG View Post
Is that due to the way the IAG ownership structure is set up?

Do you know if other IAG group airlines staff are eligible?
Definitely IAG employees can.

Originally Posted by jonas123 View Post
this doesn't sound correct. I know a couple of managers in BA who have received IAG shares as part of their bonus scheme
I was a Band 2 and this wasn't on offer for us, but I know that one of my bosses, a B1 manager, used to get some pretty hefty share bonuses back in the day (2012/13). In his case, wholly deserved.

Originally Posted by Sigwx View Post
As the title says unless BALPA agrees to BAís demands essentially.
Goes on to show how much the TUs can influence the airline in times like these. If even BALPA - the one with the best accesses to the airline's leadership, the most influencial and the most powerful - gets very little but an increase in redundancies, fire-and-rehire and just a VR opportunity... I can't even begin to fathom what sort of deal GMB (the "You say jump I say how high" of Unions) will get.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:28 pm
  #1368  
 
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Such a shame that itís extended to pilots and more redundancies than planned. However key difference being BALPA is still affirming that despite this they will to continue to engage with BA even with this new updated S188 and ďfire and rehireĒ hanging over their heads. Unlike GMB/Unite who seem content with not doing anything but still throwing toys out of the pram...and drowning any hopes for employees already as if BAís approach to this hasnít been bad enough!

I mean even just reading through BALPAís communications, theyíre so so much more coherent, sensible, mature and realistic in addition to being factual. There also seem to be already a list of things that BALPA have managed to agree with BA on thatíll lessen the impact, like an enhanced VR package, BRS and external opportunities scheme (deployment into RAF etc). Itís not this bombastic provocative doing-no-good-for-anyone rubbish Unite send which also offer no alternatives or solutions other than ďrescind your S188Ē and keep existing fleet structure (which of course isnít in writing but quite blatant thatís one of the key objectives)!

P.S. for anyone that wants to read a copy of the letter sent to BALPA members to judge for themselves on the way itís been written, itís available on @ITVJoel on Twitter.

Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 6, 20 at 8:49 pm
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Old Jun 7, 20, 12:42 am
  #1369  
 
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Originally Posted by AirbusA350 View Post

I mean even just reading through BALPAís communications, theyíre so so much more coherent, sensible, mature and realistic in addition to being factual. .
They always are. The cabin crew unions have a history of kicking their toys out of the pram and to do whatís best for the union and not their members. 15 years ago the cabin crew union used to basically run the company, sadly some of that mindset still exists.

a crew member this week told me BA canít do anything unless the union agree lol. It really is sad to see people being fed such nonsense.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 1:51 am
  #1370  
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Originally Posted by A P Yu View Post
They always are. The cabin crew unions have a history of kicking their toys out of the pram and to do what’s best for the union and not their members. 15 years ago the cabin crew union used to basically run the company, sadly some of that mindset still exists.

a crew member this week told me BA can’t do anything unless the union agree lol. It really is sad to see people being fed such nonsense.
Time for the CC staff to now elect themselves 2-3 effective communicators that can negotiate and engage directly with BA. And while they are about it, demand their last 12 months union subs back from UNITE.

At the moment it seems like lambs to the slaughter, the UNITE leadership is not seeing that their strategy of trying to get the public onside, get MPs to look at taking some LHR slots away, refusing to engage unless the 188 notices are withdrawn etc is an abject failure.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 2:18 am
  #1371  
 
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There is so much distortion of facts going on here.
Last year it was BALPA that went on strike because they were in deep dispute with BA and that is the reason BA paid no bonus to all BA staff as a form of punishment for the disruption caused to our customers, so trying to make out that BA has good relations with any of the unions is farcical and I am trying to work out what agenda some of you on here have.

BALPA have been negotiating in good faith with BA, as up until now, they hadn’t been threatened with this ‘fire and rehire’ and BA have repaid them by issuing a new S188 with the threat that if no agreement can be reached they will make all pilots redundant and then send out new contracts to those they wish to keep.

How some of you can put a good spin on any of this is beyond me. Some progress has been made but if BA make all the pilots redundant because they don’t agree to their full plan, then all that will be lost. So BA are not consulting in good faith with any group of staff.

I am very pleased for the pilots that they have been able to get close to agreeing a VR offer as this will make it easier for those near retirement to escape but the future still looks pretty bleak for anyone employed at BA whatever group they belong to.

Last edited by Littlegirl; Jun 7, 20 at 2:29 am
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Old Jun 7, 20, 3:51 am
  #1372  
 
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Originally Posted by BOH View Post
Time for the CC staff to now elect themselves 2-3 effective communicators that can negotiate and engage directly with BA. And while they are about it, demand their last 12 months union subs back from UNITE.

At the moment it seems like lambs to the slaughter, the UNITE leadership is not seeing that their strategy of trying to get the public onside, get MPs to look at taking some LHR slots away, refusing to engage unless the 188 notices are withdrawn etc is an abject failure.
Do CC have a choice of who represents them? Could they resign on mass from UNITE and sign up with another union who may better represent them?
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Old Jun 7, 20, 5:22 am
  #1373  
 
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Question from me. So with WW leaving in September, do we expect there to be any changes with regards to employee relations? Because this is more WW than it is AC i believe
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:02 am
  #1374  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl View Post
I am very pleased for the pilots that they have been able to get close to agreeing a VR offer
Could this just possibly be because BALPA have meaningfully engaging with BA?

Perhaps if UNITE sat down with BA properly they might get something? Iím not suggesting it would be significant, but surely any positive adjustment is a win?

I would really like someone to articulate why the current UNITE strategy is best for BA staff, best for you. How can refusing to speak to your employer possibly be in your best interests? Sadly, my fear is that the current strategy is all about union self-protection and living up to an outmoded, irrelevant view of industrial relations.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:05 am
  #1375  
 
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Agent69,
Some CC tried that back in 2010. They set up something called PCCC, (or similar). The response from BASSA/Unite was vitriolic, and very deeply personal and threatening. The lead folk carried on for a while, but regular/normal CC were too personally and physically scared to join. As A P Yu said earlier, some CC still believe that the TUs run BA. (They nearly did for a while). They thought they were like the TUs and London Tube.

But please don't think my memories of 2010 indicate my liking for the way BA are behaving!!
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:11 am
  #1376  
 
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Originally Posted by opus99 View Post
Question from me. So with WW leaving in September, do we expect there to be any changes with regards to employee relations? Because this is more WW than it is AC i believe
There's no doubt that there is a dislike for WW among many of his employees. However, if you want improved employee relationships then it's probably a case of the old adage ' it takes two to tango'. The unions will need to reign in their worst excesses if things are going to change.

I think it more likely that AC will keep the ship on it's current course and at appropriate points in time throw up his arms and say 'it's not my fault, Willie did this'. I can see that excuse lasting for quite some time.
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:20 am
  #1377  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
Agent69,
Some CC tried that back in 2010. They set up something called PCCC, (or similar). The response from BASSA/Unite was vitriolic, and very deeply personal and threatening. The lead folk carried on for a while, but regular/normal CC were too personally and physically scared to join. As A P Yu said earlier, some CC still believe that the TUs run BA. (They nearly did for a while). They thought they were like the TUs and London Tube.

But please don't think my memories of 2010 indicate my liking for the way BA are behaving!!
It was the PCCC - Professional Cabin Crew Council
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:24 am
  #1378  
 
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Originally Posted by Littlegirl View Post
How some of you can put a good spin on any of this is beyond me. Some progress has been made but if BA make all the pilots redundant because they donít agree to their full plan, then all that will be lost. So BA are not consulting in good faith with any group of staff.
Iím not sure if youíre specifically relating to my comment or others but I will clarify that my comment has no positive spin whatsoever on the state of play for employees nor does it enhance BAís image or support BAís disgusting antics.

The moral of my comment was about the stark (and frankly tremendously more mature) difference between BALPA and Unite/GMB. True at the end of the day pilots may succumb in a brutal fashioned despite BALPAís engagement (hopefully not), but I am sure that they will be truly grateful for the efforts BALPA has put in.

Iím not so sure, for example, a MF employee will feel the same about Uniteís approach. If and when theyíre made redundant, for sure there will be a sense of spite that the organisation that theyíve been paying into knowingly hasnít even tried to do anything to get round a table (even virtually). Whereas a pilot thatís made redundant will likely only have disgust directed towards the company and may at least seek little comfort that the organisation that represented their interests at least genuinely tried whatever they could.

Last edited by AirbusA350; Jun 7, 20 at 6:31 am
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:33 am
  #1379  
 
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I have worked for 2 large UK corporates that have issued lots of S188s. A number of S188s over time was quite standard in their processes. In the 2nd one, there was a monthly "formal" meeting with full time officials, and about one week before, new S188s were issued to the reps and the FTOs, and the responsible managers would turn up at the meeting to be grilled by reps, TU FTOs and their fellow managers. (Once a manager had been through the process once, they felt entitled to join in. Sometimes with vigour).
So pretending that a "new" S188 is unusual is TU BS.
However, 1. The TUs always turned up and 2. They negotiated for better terms than Statutory!!
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Old Jun 7, 20, 6:35 am
  #1380  
 
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I'm not sure if this has been answered already but surely cabin crew couldn't operate all aircraft types on the proposed new ways of working? I'm sure there was some CAA regulation on aircraft licences but are we saying under the new Ts and Cs cabin crew would all cover 777/787/747/380/350/319/320/321?
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