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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old Jun 6, 20, 6:07 am
  #1351  
 
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Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
I mentioned the PM's pay to highlight the fallacy of the argument over CEOs and city bankers and others pay being down to their level of financial responsibility. Given that many who post here earn more than the PM yet feel fully justified in their bonus and salary levels while telling others they are not worth it, I thought the hypocrisy worthy of highlighting.

The bonus pay issue was again to highlight that given record levels of profit no All Colleague Bonus was paid. The whole purpose of a bonus is to incentivise the workforce. There is no right to a bonus but the point is that given record profit levels and no bonus, the scheme serves to disincentivise and demoralise the workforce - hence the first pilot strike in BA history. We are not dealing with stellar quality management. Irrelevant, obviously, for this year but serves to illustrate how poor management thinks - record profits but dont let the workers share in that success.

Redundancy - all workers live in the cocooned world of their own creation, but again there is never a right to more than mandatory CR packages. But given the furore on social media as to BAs proposed treatment of staff in the C19 pandemic, the public think they should get a little more more.

We all all entitled to the levels of pay that we signed a contract for, doubtless you feel, as we all do, that you are within your rights to expect to get what you were contracted to earn. Whether or not that is privileged or at greater than market rate is rather irrelevant. Sure the company want/need to reduce their costs but it is how it is done that is the issue. Taking tax payers money on a scheme designed to protect jobs while slashing jobs is probably not the way to do it.

I hope all those who have been telling us, who are staff,that we should be grateful for the bare minimum, that we are overpaid and deserve to be got rid of or only paid market rate do not fall foul of their bosses doing the same to them when the true economic damage of C19 becomes clear. I wish you all the best and that your respective companies flourish, that none of you are in the same situation.

My sympathies lie with my colleagues whose are lives are going to change for the worst in a dramtic fashion, and i make no apologies for that.
Too true Waterhorse. A contract of employment is a contract.
Maybe Im wrong but you cant simply tear up a contract simply because circumstances change...a negotiation has to take place where recompense is offered to the injured party to try and solve the issue.

I agree that the change in circumstances is huge and unprecedented but I dont hear anything about the contracts BA signed concerning fuel hedging! I bet the oil companies are keeping them to their contract...indeed how many billions have BA (IAG) put by for that?
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Old Jun 6, 20, 6:33 am
  #1352  
 
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Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
I mentioned the PM's pay to highlight the fallacy of the argument over CEOs and city bankers and others pay being down to their level of financial responsibility. Given that many who post here earn more than the PM yet feel fully justified in their bonus and salary levels while telling others they are not worth it, I thought the hypocrisy worthy of highlighting.

The bonus pay issue was again to highlight that given record levels of profit no All Colleague Bonus was paid. The whole purpose of a bonus is to incentivise the workforce. There is no right to a bonus but the point is that given record profit levels and no bonus, the scheme serves to disincentivise and demoralise the workforce - hence the first pilot strike in BA history. We are not dealing with stellar quality management. Irrelevant, obviously, for this year but serves to illustrate how poor management thinks - record profits but dont let the workers share in that success.
I'm in two minds of bonus schemes that share wider company success with employees rather than indiviual/team achievement bonuses. Often one has no relation to the other and in some sectors (e.g. public sector) things such as profit/financial success do not exist anyway.

Genuine question. Are there no share schemes within BA/IAG? This to me is maybe the best way of enabling staff to buy into the company at favourable rates (or recieve # free shares) and share in that success. If the company is doing well than maybe set the discount higher. This is also a cheaper way for the company to improve the renumeration package as a whole as it doesn't cost actual money, it also gives staff a greater attachment to the company.

IMHO, most bonuses should provide incentives to do a better job. In some jobs it's irrelevent (e.g. flight crew) and as such a bonus system is probably inappropriate, in some it is noticeable but less tangible (e.g. cabin crew - a proper bonus for golden tickets/good customer feedback would be a great scheme), in others it can be directly measured as someone performing better than their peers or exceeding targets.

Last edited by gliderpilot; Jun 6, 20 at 6:53 am Reason: typos
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Old Jun 6, 20, 6:34 am
  #1353  
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Originally Posted by OhLordy View Post
I agree that the change in circumstances is huge and unprecedented but I dont hear anything about the contracts BA signed concerning fuel hedging! I bet the oil companies are keeping them to their contract...indeed how many billions have BA (IAG) put by for that?
1.4 billion has been mentioned in IAG financial statements and in other discussion threads here as the fuel hedging loss following the collapse in the oil price.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 7:10 am
  #1354  
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The only share system is an IAG one and BA staff are not eligible to join.

Last edited by Can I help you; Jun 6, 20 at 7:39 am
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Old Jun 6, 20, 7:23 am
  #1355  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Just to cheer you up, Gary Lineker gets his bus pass in 6 months.
Yeah he's older than me then. 14 months to go for me
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:03 am
  #1356  
 
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The "We are not talking to you until you withdraw S188 notices" approach does not work for me. There are few days left of the original 45, and not a serious word has been spoken between the parties. The concessions that BA were prepared to make to the TUs will be gone.
Or BA will give them out magnanimously. Unless a Court gives a most unlikely reprieve.
After 15/6, BA will get on with what they wanted to do..............
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:08 am
  #1357  
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Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
Given that many who post here earn more than the PM yet feel fully justified in their bonus and salary levels while telling others they are not worth it, I thought the hypocrisy worthy of highlighting.
Really? How do you know any details of what people on here earn or are even able to speculate?

Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
Redundancy - all workers live in the cocooned world of their own creation, but again there is never a right to more than mandatory CR packages. But given the furore on social media as to BAs proposed treatment of staff in the C19 pandemic, the public think they should get a little more more.
Do they? Why would the public think BA are a special case for "a little more" than workers in their own company or sector....I'm genuinely mystified at that claim. I've not heard of any companies at the moment offering more that statuary minimum for CR. You say "there is never a right to more than mandatory pay" but the rest of the paragraph suggests the exact opposite and that the public is actually behind this?

Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
Taking tax payers money on a scheme designed to protect jobs while slashing jobs is probably not the way to do it.
There is that cocooned world in a nutshell I'm afraid. Yes the furlough scheme was absolutely designed to protect jobs when announced. But since it was announced just 3 or so months ago, a great deal has changed. The economic effects of CV19 are much, much more damaging than anyone predicted and I suspect the vast majority of companies will be making redundant some (if not most) of those they furloughed. This is called the real world, along with the fact that a dramatic air traffic collapse has occurred virtually overnight with recovery only to 2019 levels by 2023. For this to be considered only a "temporary "market condition so BA should not cut staff or look to implement severe cost cutting is absolutely not the real world.

Originally Posted by Waterhorse View Post
I hope all those who have been telling us, who are staff,that we should be grateful for the bare minimum, that we are overpaid and deserve to be got rid of or only paid market rate do not fall foul of their bosses doing the same to them when the true economic damage of C19 becomes clear. I wish you all the best and that your respective companies flourish, that none of you are in the same situation.
But surely "market rate" is what usually defines the job market in a competitive economy - we do not live in a Communist regime. The only way usually for staff to be paid way, way above the market rate is when there is strong regulation and-or a highly captive market with little or no competition. If you add a strong union into that mix then you can demand and get excellent pay and conditions way, way above market rate with a perfect example being London Underground staff. What their union has extracted over the years for their staff is truly mind blowing. Why are they able to.....because they are highly regulated and have zero competition for rapid transit across London.....but in contrast, the last 20 or so years, a) airlines are no longer highly regulated and b) there is lots of competition. Lots and lots of it
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Old Jun 6, 20, 8:21 am
  #1358  
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
The "We are not talking to you until you withdraw S188 notices" approach does not work for me. There are few days left of the original 45, and not a serious word has been spoken between the parties. The concessions that BA were prepared to make to the TUs will be gone.
Or BA will give them out magnanimously. Unless a Court gives a most unlikely reprieve.
After 15/6, BA will get on with what they wanted to do..............
As I said upthread, this was the exact tactic used by Arthur Scargill, the hard-left former leader of the NUM in the terrible miners dispute of the mid-80s. Flatly refused to engage with the coal board (NCB) until they withdrew the closure of ALL the pits they had earmarked to close because they were simply no longer economic to mine. The NCB were certainly willing to compromise and make the closures much more phased and enhance redundancy terms but Scargill flatly refused to even talk with them.

The result of the union stance was the closures then happened but to the original and much quicker NCB plan and the redundant miners did not come out with the enhanced terms the NCB had been prepared to offer. Scargill will go to his grave feeling he tried to stop ALL the pit closures on behalf of his members, failing to recognise that it was inevitable with demand for coal steadily falling year-on-year and that his role was to get the absolute best for his members in light of this.

Fast forward to 2020.......nothing has been learned in the TU movement.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 9:18 am
  #1359  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you View Post
The only share system is an IAG one and BA staff are not eligible to join.
Is that due to the way the IAG ownership structure is set up?

Do you know if other IAG group airlines staff are eligible?
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Old Jun 6, 20, 9:39 am
  #1360  
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Originally Posted by BOH View Post
Really? How do you know any details of what people on here earn or are even able to speculate?
Some people on here like to brag. Mentioning no names...
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Old Jun 6, 20, 9:53 am
  #1361  
 
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I became a millionaire in August last year! ..... In Bali of all places!
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Old Jun 6, 20, 10:40 am
  #1362  
 
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BA to fire and rehire pilots in July

As the title says unless BALPA agrees to BAs demands essentially.

Last edited by Sigwx; Jun 6, 20 at 10:53 am
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Old Jun 6, 20, 10:56 am
  #1363  
 
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Sigwx,
It is a more aggressive S188 than earlier. BALPA need to get their negotiating skills sharp! As with others, BA are simply using/abusing UK law. However, their case with pilots will be weaker. It's too long and technical for my typing skills. It turns on positions/jobs being made redundant, not individuals.
Good luck, all.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 11:21 am
  #1364  
 
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Originally Posted by passy777 View Post
I suspect that other flyers would have a vested interest in maintenance and engineering departments to ensure the equipment they are flying in is actually safe.
I agree. Although they seem to be rather light on the ground don't they (here I mean). And I don't know any specifics over what their headcount reduction and new contract looks like so I'd be plucking figures out of thin air if I did.
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Old Jun 6, 20, 12:09 pm
  #1365  
 
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Originally Posted by Can I help you View Post
The only share system is an IAG one and BA staff are not eligible to join.
this doesn't sound correct. I know a couple of managers in BA who have received IAG shares as part of their bonus scheme
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