BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"
Jun 5, 2020, 3:42 am
#1291
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Another contribution on another website said that Len's position was that the TU would not talk to BA unless BA withdrew the Section 188 letters. Allegedly that's all Len raised with the BA bosses.
There is a flock of large pink pigs flying past my window as I type.
Echoing BS65, what were the numbers in the letter from BA??
There is a flock of large pink pigs flying past my window as I type.
Echoing BS65, what were the numbers in the letter from BA??
Jun 5, 2020, 3:45 am
#1292
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,600
Jun 5, 2020, 3:57 am
#1293
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,267
sxc
thanks.
We currently have 6382 Worldwide crew members of which:
• 531 are CSDs
• 1,060 are CSLs
• 4,791 are Main Crew
We currently have 1853 Eurofleet crew members of which:
• 11 are CSDs
• 466 are Pursers
• 1376 are Main Crew
We currently have 6027 Mixed Fleet crew members of which:
• 852 are CSMs
• 5,175 are Cabin Crew
thanks.
We currently have 6382 Worldwide crew members of which:
• 531 are CSDs
• 1,060 are CSLs
• 4,791 are Main Crew
We currently have 1853 Eurofleet crew members of which:
• 11 are CSDs
• 466 are Pursers
• 1376 are Main Crew
We currently have 6027 Mixed Fleet crew members of which:
• 852 are CSMs
• 5,175 are Cabin Crew
Jun 5, 2020, 4:03 am
#1294
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
Len just wants the S188 withdrawn and his letters have all gone for the “we can’t meaningfully negotiate on furlough”. If you read Len’s letters to IAG board/Alex Cruz, they’re all very much head in the sand.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:04 am
#1295
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,667
I seem to recall an email from OH's Unite reps saying that Len and Alex talked and there were refusals all over the shop on these sort of points.
Now, that's one side of the barricade and all that, but it's clear to me that BA is planning to use this situation as the crowbar with which to break up the crew structure that emerged from 2010. And they will progress to do that.
Now, that's one side of the barricade and all that, but it's clear to me that BA is planning to use this situation as the crowbar with which to break up the crew structure that emerged from 2010. And they will progress to do that.
tt is sad for the people involved but they have had enhanced pay and T&Cs for some years now compared to what are now considered the new market rates.....we should not forget that BA (and U2, FR etc) have zero problem recruiting CC at these new market rates. It has taken a major crisis to get it through but in the exact same way the unions operate, you aim to bring change when you know you have the cards in your favour. On this occasion, BA don't just have the card deck in their favour, they hold every single card in the deck. We should not forget, if the unions held all the cards they would not hesitate to try and force change.....remember strikes at peak summertime anyone?
Jun 5, 2020, 4:21 am
#1296
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:34 am
#1297
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,653
sxc
thanks.
We currently have 6382 Worldwide crew members of which:
• 531 are CSDs
• 1,060 are CSLs
• 4,791 are Main Crew
We currently have 1853 Eurofleet crew members of which:
• 11 are CSDs
• 466 are Pursers
• 1376 are Main Crew
We currently have 6027 Mixed Fleet crew members of which:
• 852 are CSMs
• 5,175 are Cabin Crew
thanks.
We currently have 6382 Worldwide crew members of which:
• 531 are CSDs
• 1,060 are CSLs
• 4,791 are Main Crew
We currently have 1853 Eurofleet crew members of which:
• 11 are CSDs
• 466 are Pursers
• 1376 are Main Crew
We currently have 6027 Mixed Fleet crew members of which:
• 852 are CSMs
• 5,175 are Cabin Crew
Jun 5, 2020, 4:34 am
#1298
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: where lions are led by donkeys...
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 20,340
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:34 am
#1299
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
Unfortunately the ‘race to the bottom’ mentality is endemic.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:36 am
#1300
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bradford, England
Programs: BA GGL/CCR , HH Diamond
Posts: 274
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
FT is a fab resource and every interaction I have had has been with unfailingly helpful individuals. Thankfully we have different views and (more importantly) are allowed to share them so why stop now?
Jun 5, 2020, 4:44 am
#1301
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: where lions are led by donkeys...
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 20,340
CIHY was so right and spotted it so very, very early. 
Jun 5, 2020, 4:44 am
#1302
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle.
Posts: 1,446
And now they want to sue the government over the quarantine period....... That would be the government that's paying the wages of the staff you want to get rid of.... Unbelievable.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:46 am
#1303
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,412
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
It’s a systemic crisis globally and sadly has deep socioeconomic impacts on the generations just starting their careers, which is why they would rather sell their souls for 5 mins of fame on reality tv, Instagram, YouTube fame or become football players than work in the service industries with pride and passion because of the pay and the peer perception.
Incredibly sad and worrying for the service industries future and the future of the people that can’t stomach the jobs because of low pay etc. Why these jobs are beneath or belittled by anyone, simply amazes me.
Jun 5, 2020, 4:52 am
#1304
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 72
What if one of the “lucky” ones says - thanks very much but I’m quite happy with my current contract of employment? What does BA do then?
Whilst writing this I am thinking outside of the crew community where clearly there are issues over different fleets...this is about technical, non technical, administration staff et all!
A need for headcount reduction I get very clearly but this blatant attack on T&C’s is just a clear example of a race to the bottom - using this current pandemic as a convenient excuse to do it.
i cannot believe that any person on this site can find this behaviour acceptable in any way, shape and form.
Jun 5, 2020, 5:00 am
#1305
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,218
What is it with many of you here that you all seem to feel that anyone working in a service industry deserves to have low pay!
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
How has our society reached this point where I presume intelligent people argue that it is right that certain workers do not deserve a decent living that helps them live in what is the most expensive area in the country?
How is it that society seems to think that a vast swath of the population only deserve to be on low pay now, lower that in previous decades?
It really is bizarre, no one could say that any BA staff are overpaid, whichever contract they are on but constantly we are told here that cabin crew only deserve to be paid lower wages? Why is that then?
BA made 1.92 billion in profits last year while paying it’s staff the current wage bill, so why do some of you feel that BA employees, particularly cabin crew, should be earning low wages?
This doesn’t only apply to BA, but it seems to be a strange view taken about any service industry job? Often put forward by people on much higher wages.
I don’t need any of you to actually answer these questions because I don’t really want to hear what you will be saying, I just wanted to point out how very odd the views a lot of you seem to have are, where people earning quite normal wages, in fact on London standards fairly low, are considered overpaid! Quite odd.
We, the public, want cheap tickets. And tickets are a lot cheaper than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. That's undoubtedly a good thing, but we're in the position were we expect cheap flights.
The investors, on the other side, want larger returns. More revenue, but crucially lower non-fuel CASK. Check out the transcripts of the investors' day of any airline: cost, cost, cost. Larger returns, dividends, share buy-backs.
Then of course top management wants larger bonuses.
The industry is geared towards bringing maximum benefits in the shorter period of time, because the airlines are boom-and-bust, they aren't those stocks that keep on plodding along for ages: you buy 'em low and sell them at the top of the cycle and expect maximum returns in the few years inbetween. The only way to do this is to sell more, but obviously lower the costs. By my reckoning, if BA reduces the people costs by how much they seem to be wanting to, they'll improve non-fuel CASK (assuming constant flying) between 3 and 5%. The City will be giddy with excitement, apart from results day when the stock will dip as analysts expected 6%.
The result of this is the squeezing of the standards of living of those working in the industry. And if you think Mixed Fleet crews have it badly, do yourself a favour and check out the T&Cs of cleaners, caterers, handlers working for handling companies. It's grim.