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BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

BA to cut up to 12,000 jobs in "restructuring and redundancy programme"

Old May 13, 2020, 2:16 am
  #706  
 
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@ 13901 - my post above was penned before I saw your own - and not in order to challenge it.

I must concede (FWIW) that what you say is cause for reflection, and highlights the one-sided nature of this battle (if that is an appropriate term)..
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:58 am
  #707  
 
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Originally Posted by 13901
OK, let's suppose they go to the negotiating table today.

What can they bargain with? What sort of leverage do the unions have?

Their only weapon is industrial action. BA - I know it for a fact - doesn't respond well to mysticism or appeals to morality. The negotiation that BA is envisaging is 'I say jump, you say how high', to quote freely from Rage Against the Machine. The company doesn't even want to consider early retirement or VR. Again, if the TUs don't agree with those terms, then what? Picket lines standing 2 metres away from each other outside a terminal with no flights and no passengers? If they negotiate now, BA has all the winning cards. If they don't negotiate, BA has all the winning cards. To me, challenging the right of firing people whilst furlough is ongoing is the only sensible option, or the one that has the slightest chance of winning. They're going to lose anyway.
When industrial action is called it is often targeted at dates that will cause maximum disruption to innocent members of the travelling public (Easter, school holidays). Not much morality there?

If the worst that can happen if unions attend is that they end up with the same as if they hadn't attended, then what have they got to loose? I don't think they will get a lot of sympathy from outside the industry if they just stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.
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Old May 13, 2020, 3:11 am
  #708  
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Originally Posted by Agent69
When industrial action is called it is often targeted at dates that will cause maximum disruption to innocent members of the travelling public (Easter, school holidays). Not much morality there?.
Last year there was a strike Monday 9th September 19, when most children were at school. Not sure why they didnt target the summer holidays.
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Old May 13, 2020, 4:19 am
  #709  
 
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Pretty much in line with the overall 30% reduction, BACF has notified BALPA of proposed redundancy of 72 out of 248 BACF pilots, along with the closure of the EDI crew base.

https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/P...-the-Chancello
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Old May 13, 2020, 4:39 am
  #710  
 
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Originally Posted by Agent69
When industrial action is called it is often targeted at dates that will cause maximum disruption to innocent members of the travelling public (Easter, school holidays). Not much morality there?
Hey, I'm not saying TUs are agents and BA are devils. Despite my distaste for Alex and his mediocre leadership, I agree that cuts are needed. Having said that, other countries have legislation that limits the power of going on strike. If any government wanted, they could've prohibited strikes over specific periods of time...

Originally Posted by Agent69
If the worst that can happen if unions attend is that they end up with the same as if they hadn't attended, then what have they got to loose? I don't think they will get a lot of sympathy from outside the industry if they just stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.
As I said, they would relinquish their only weapon. I've worked with BA TUs in the past - always in a good way - but their power, especially in Engineering where there's a lot of militancy, has always been made clear: from work-to-rule, to CAA complaints, up to strike action. Nothing of this kind applies today: the unions are powerless. There's no work going on, no flights in the sky, no passengers being processed. Sure, the 10% of people actually working right now could go on strike tomorrow... ain't gonna make a difference. This is the issue, and this is why the unions aren't negotiating. Because they have nothing to negotiate with.

As for sympathy... The public was sympathetic of Mixed Fleet, pilots and - had anyone cared enough - would've been sympathetic of LGW below the wing, IT, the 30% of HQ staff let go in 2017, International Crews in EZE, GRU, HKG, SIN and I'm sure I'm missing someone, plus of course Line Maintenance engineers in Europe, Customer Service staff in the UK regions and several roles in Heathrow Customer Services. None of that sympathy prevented any of the above people being fired.
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Old May 13, 2020, 4:44 am
  #711  
 
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Originally Posted by Oaxaca
Pretty much in line with the overall 30% reduction, BACF has notified BALPA of proposed redundancy of 72 out of 248 BACF pilots, along with the closure of the EDI crew base.

https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/P...-the-Chancello
Interesting if not a tad insensitive wording from BALPA - death spiral?
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Old May 13, 2020, 5:04 am
  #712  
 
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I would hope that unions would push for voluntary redundancies instead of compulsory
Also to consider temporary measures such as long term unpaid leave and pay cuts to be reinstated in better times.
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Old May 13, 2020, 6:38 am
  #713  
 
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Originally Posted by BY1985
Interesting if not a tad insensitive wording from BALPA - death spiral?
Every quote I read from Brian Strutton makes him sound more and more useless. I hope BALPA members have a different view and feel he is representing them well.
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Old May 13, 2020, 6:42 am
  #714  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
TUI have also announced 8000 redundancies worldwide. It’s going to be very tough in this industry for quite some time. It must be very concerning for everyone who currently works in this industry
Ummm... newsflash; it's "very tough" for all industries right now, and will be for quite some time. This situation is very concerning for everyone, in just about every industry, not just airline employees.

Regards
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Old May 13, 2020, 6:50 am
  #715  
 
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As I have suggested before, I suspect that WW wants to splatter BASSA due to their daft intransigence 10 years ago. So I suspect the longer service folk will become a target and LIFO minimised. He already gets enough T/O from the MF staff.

Our empathy with long serving high-quality staff will not do much if BA are just out for legacy staff and BASSA.

Does he have any agendas against BALPA?

I do not understand why targetted VR is not first on BA's set of actions. There must be a reason for that, but I can't see it.
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Old May 13, 2020, 6:57 am
  #716  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
I do not understand why targetted VR is not first on BA's set of actions. There must be a reason for that, but I can't see it.
Maybe the stated policy of statutory minimum redundancy payments (max payment 16,140) will be a lot cheaper (and faster) than VR.
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Old May 13, 2020, 7:06 am
  #717  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
I do not understand why targetted VR is not first on BA's set of actions. There must be a reason for that, but I can't see it.
I'm not an expert on this, but friends are saying that BA's position is to offer only statutory redundancy pay. The main difference, as I understand it, is of course costs.

Under the VR rules I'm familiar with (having reapplied for my job a few times) BA's offer is your notice period + 1 week's wage for every year of service (capped at 1 year's total) plus, normally, an additional enhancement for not going in the Career Transition System.

So, for one guy (or gal) of 40 years who has worked at BA for 20 and has a salary of 50k, the gross VR total would be (50,000/2)+(50,000/52)*20 = 44,230 (notice period for Banded employees is 6 months for those who are either Band 2 or have logged more than 5 years' service). According to the gov.uk website, statutory redundancy is 9,975. Please note that I haven't done the same calculation for crews as I don't know what their notice period is nor I know whether their salary is considered to include the hourly flying allowance or not... But anyway, if we assume that the difference between VR and "normal" redundancy pay to be an average of 25,000/person, then BA could "save" 300m.

One obvious caveat I haven't mentioned is that, as far as I know, VR is taxed and statutory redundancy isn't.
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Old May 13, 2020, 7:08 am
  #718  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
As I have suggested before, I suspect that WW wants to splatter BASSA due to their daft intransigence 10 years ago. So I suspect the longer service folk will become a target and LIFO minimised. He already gets enough T/O from the MF staff.

Our empathy with long serving high-quality staff will not do much if BA are just out for legacy staff and BASSA.

Does he have any agendas against BALPA?

I do not understand why targetted VR is not first on BA's set of actions. There must be a reason for that, but I can't see it.
I assume they're concerned the wrong people might volunteer.

All other things being equal, the logical thing for BA is to release the people who are going to cost the most in the long run.
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Old May 13, 2020, 7:44 am
  #719  
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Originally Posted by scubadu
Ummm... newsflash; it's "very tough" for all industries right now, and will be for quite some time. This situation is very concerning for everyone, in just about every industry, not just airline employees.

Regards
Indeed, but I'm sure you will appreciate this is a frequent flyer forum and we are discussing flying related issues.
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Old May 13, 2020, 9:23 am
  #720  
 
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So has BASSA then filed for a court hearing? If so I presume it wont be anytime soon that it will heard in court session. Meanwhile the clock keeps ticking. So in 30 days times (when the minimum consultation period ends), can BA start their process unilaterally on the grounds that We gave them the chance but they didnt come forward, time has now run out?
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