Change Fees for Tickets booked BEFORE the CV 19 Alert, Involving Areas With Disease
Mar 9, 2020, 6:18 am
#76
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
If we decide to travel when we see the risk, aren't we actually bearing the risk? I know I am.
I am not holding BA responsible for flying me into London this afternoon, even though where I am have far fewer cases than they do in London.
I am holding myself fully responsible for my own choice. I had an option to pay the change fee and fly another time, or even ditch the flight altogether, but I haven't done so. That was entirely my choice.
I am not holding BA responsible for flying me into London this afternoon, even though where I am have far fewer cases than they do in London.
I am holding myself fully responsible for my own choice. I had an option to pay the change fee and fly another time, or even ditch the flight altogether, but I haven't done so. That was entirely my choice.
Mar 9, 2020, 8:05 am
#77
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: American Life Time 2 Million Mile Platinum
Posts: 368
Mar 9, 2020, 8:07 am
#78
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,782
Mar 9, 2020, 3:07 pm
#80
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
The fact that BA baggage handlers are now sick with Covid 19, and most likely eventually more staff, constitutes one more potent reason for which BA MUST waive change fees irrespective of the ticket's purchase date, since the company can now be tangibly part to contamination of passengers' baggage.
Mar 9, 2020, 4:07 pm
#81
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 941
If we decide to travel when we see the risk, aren't we actually bearing the risk? I know I am.
I am not holding BA responsible for flying me into London this afternoon, even though where I am have far fewer cases than they do in London.
I am holding myself fully responsible for my own choice. I had an option to pay the change fee and fly another time, or even ditch the flight altogether, but I haven't done so. That was entirely my choice.
I am not holding BA responsible for flying me into London this afternoon, even though where I am have far fewer cases than they do in London.
I am holding myself fully responsible for my own choice. I had an option to pay the change fee and fly another time, or even ditch the flight altogether, but I haven't done so. That was entirely my choice.
It is our choice to continue travelling and we accept the (small) risk that comes with that in doing so at the present time.
If I get it... well there's little I can do. But there have been six cases within a few miles radius of where I live - I can just as well catch it here rather than on an aircraft.
Mar 9, 2020, 4:56 pm
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 629
New update for Italy refund for will destinations or rebook for travel up to 4 april
Key Message – Updates in red
The following guidelines have been published to assist any customer who may wish to change their travel date for Northern Italy.
Advice for British Airways-125 ticketed customers whose BA flight is still OPERATING or is CANCELLED
Rebook onto
British Airways
Airports affected
To/From
All airports in Italy
Tickets issued by
08 March 2020
Ticket travel dates
Up to and including 04 April 2020
New travel dates
Up to and including 31May 2020
Rebooking Allowance
Rebook into the same class as the original flight or lowest available in the same cabin
Change of gateway (1)
Rebook onto a British Airways operated service to/from ZRH (Zurich) or GVA (Geneva) and London (any airport) into the same class as the original flight or lowest available in the same cabin.
Must advise the customer that any consequential cost to travel between the original and the new Swiss gateway, e.g. surface transport, hotels, etc. are at their expense. Add a remark into the booking stating that you have advised this.
Visas may also need to be checked to travel into Switzerland.
Origin/Destination/Stopover changes
Yes – as above
Refunds Allowed
Yes
Redemptions included
Yes
Available for Trade
Yes
Important Information
Key Message – Updates in red
The following guidelines have been published to assist any customer who may wish to change their travel date for Northern Italy.
Advice for British Airways-125 ticketed customers whose BA flight is still OPERATING or is CANCELLED
Rebook onto
British Airways
Airports affected
To/From
All airports in Italy
Tickets issued by
08 March 2020
Ticket travel dates
Up to and including 04 April 2020
New travel dates
Up to and including 31May 2020
Rebooking Allowance
Rebook into the same class as the original flight or lowest available in the same cabin
Change of gateway (1)
Rebook onto a British Airways operated service to/from ZRH (Zurich) or GVA (Geneva) and London (any airport) into the same class as the original flight or lowest available in the same cabin.
Must advise the customer that any consequential cost to travel between the original and the new Swiss gateway, e.g. surface transport, hotels, etc. are at their expense. Add a remark into the booking stating that you have advised this.
Visas may also need to be checked to travel into Switzerland.
Origin/Destination/Stopover changes
Yes – as above
Refunds Allowed
Yes
Redemptions included
Yes
Available for Trade
Yes
Important Information
- one involuntary ticket change allowed from the above options
- Includes any connecting BA/Joint Business services on the same ticket
- If changing both outbound and return sectors, travel must be completed by dates specified
- For customers on cancelled flights, please follow the standard Customer Handling Guidelines > Flight Cancellations
- Adherence to commercial policies/conditions of carriage guidelines remains entirely the responsibility of the user. BA reserves the right to withdraw guidelines at any time
Mar 9, 2020, 5:36 pm
#83
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, Paris
Programs: AA ExPlat 4MM, AA Life Plat, Lufthansa FT, Delta Basic
Posts: 1,593
I have no idea of what percentage of tickets "changeable for a fee" actually get changed against the fee payment under normal circumstances, but I am certain that the airlines know about it: Is it 5%, maybe 10% ? At any rate it is probably a fairly constant figure over a year in normal market conditions. So the airlines normally cash in the change fee for... 5, 10 % of this kind of tickets.
Comes an extraordinary, dangerous and scary situation like Covi-19. Many people will want to change and the percentage may jump to 50, 60 or more % of the tickets (planes are flying empty, 18 pax in an A 321 between Paris and Athens last week), hence the long wait lines to reach the airlines by phone. Rebooking costs NOTHING or almost for the airlines (especially considering the paltry pay of reservation agents) and the money they receive from the fees constitutes a BONANZA. Again, nobody is talking about cancellations or refunds here.That is what I call profiteering and what I assimilate to avoiding restrictions through black market in a time of war. During WW2, profiteers were jailed or even shot. Back to the airlines, waiving the change fee in such exceptional situations actually costs them very little, just the fee for the usual 5 or 10% who always change as a fairly constant percentage.
Do airlines lose passengers because of the situation ? Yes but this is an entirely different matter.
A few airlines have understood this very well. To answer Hawk777's question, YES, I have had a reservation for next week from the US to Europe on Finnair , originally booked in October 2019, changed yesterday by 5 weeks for NOTHING, and AMEX which handled my reservation also waived the usual $ 39 they charge each time they touch any booking, as "If the airline waives the fee, so do we". This is ETHICAL, HONORABLE, in one word not profiteering. A few other airlines, Southwest, Delta, even AA on a case by case basis (I suspect that being an elite FF member helps).
Still answering Hawk777, yes I do have BA bookings which I try to change without paying the change fee. ( I simply wait as long as possible, hoping for a policy change). If 1 million passengers (intentionally a very small estimate) pay 300 euros each to change a booking that they would not have changed under normal circumstances, this is 300 Million euros that BA would not have received "under those normal circumstances". Nobody is asking BA to absorb a cost... In fact, there is almost no cost, just an unexpected BONANZA. If this is not Profiteering, what is ? Again, yes the airlines suffer from the pandemic but so do all other sectors of the economy. I am only talking here about rebooking. not macro-economics.
I am sorry that some in this thread consider this a rant. For me it is anything but.
Comes an extraordinary, dangerous and scary situation like Covi-19. Many people will want to change and the percentage may jump to 50, 60 or more % of the tickets (planes are flying empty, 18 pax in an A 321 between Paris and Athens last week), hence the long wait lines to reach the airlines by phone. Rebooking costs NOTHING or almost for the airlines (especially considering the paltry pay of reservation agents) and the money they receive from the fees constitutes a BONANZA. Again, nobody is talking about cancellations or refunds here.That is what I call profiteering and what I assimilate to avoiding restrictions through black market in a time of war. During WW2, profiteers were jailed or even shot. Back to the airlines, waiving the change fee in such exceptional situations actually costs them very little, just the fee for the usual 5 or 10% who always change as a fairly constant percentage.
Do airlines lose passengers because of the situation ? Yes but this is an entirely different matter.
A few airlines have understood this very well. To answer Hawk777's question, YES, I have had a reservation for next week from the US to Europe on Finnair , originally booked in October 2019, changed yesterday by 5 weeks for NOTHING, and AMEX which handled my reservation also waived the usual $ 39 they charge each time they touch any booking, as "If the airline waives the fee, so do we". This is ETHICAL, HONORABLE, in one word not profiteering. A few other airlines, Southwest, Delta, even AA on a case by case basis (I suspect that being an elite FF member helps).
Still answering Hawk777, yes I do have BA bookings which I try to change without paying the change fee. ( I simply wait as long as possible, hoping for a policy change). If 1 million passengers (intentionally a very small estimate) pay 300 euros each to change a booking that they would not have changed under normal circumstances, this is 300 Million euros that BA would not have received "under those normal circumstances". Nobody is asking BA to absorb a cost... In fact, there is almost no cost, just an unexpected BONANZA. If this is not Profiteering, what is ? Again, yes the airlines suffer from the pandemic but so do all other sectors of the economy. I am only talking here about rebooking. not macro-economics.
I am sorry that some in this thread consider this a rant. For me it is anything but.
Last edited by Cofyknsult; Mar 9, 2020 at 7:19 pm
Mar 9, 2020, 5:39 pm
#84
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,944
EDIT: by the way I tried to change an AY booking a week ago fo mid April which originated in northern Italy and destination HKG. I was told by AY any changes would be per the ticket rules. I see AY have issued a new waiver today (albeit it is badly worded and it’s not clear whether it covers just new bookings or existing bookings) so perhaps changes may be allowed now without a cost.
EDIT2: just checked AA’s policy as you mention them. Setting aside flights which are cancelled, AA change fee waiver is for bookings made after 1 March only http://news.aa.com/news/news-details...&locale=en_GB#
delta is the same, the blanket change fee waiver is for bookings made from 1 March https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...travel-updates
Last edited by KARFA; Mar 9, 2020 at 5:49 pm
Mar 9, 2020, 6:03 pm
#85
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: BA GGL & GfL, AA LTP, Marriott (sigh) Ambassador, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,233
What BA bookings have you got?
EDIT: by the way I tried to change an AY booking a week ago fo mid April which originated in northern Italy and destination HKG. I was told by AY any changes would be per the ticket rules. I see AY have issued a new waiver today (albeit it is badly worded and it’s not clear whether it covers just new bookings or existing bookings) so perhaps changes may be allowed now without a cost.
EDIT2: just checked AA’s policy as you mention them. Setting aside flights which are cancelled, AA change fee waiver is for bookings made after 1 March only Newsroom - Coronavirus: Latest Information from American Airlines - American Airlines Group, Inc.
delta is the same, the blanket change fee waiver is for bookings made from 1 March https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...travel-updates
EDIT: by the way I tried to change an AY booking a week ago fo mid April which originated in northern Italy and destination HKG. I was told by AY any changes would be per the ticket rules. I see AY have issued a new waiver today (albeit it is badly worded and it’s not clear whether it covers just new bookings or existing bookings) so perhaps changes may be allowed now without a cost.
EDIT2: just checked AA’s policy as you mention them. Setting aside flights which are cancelled, AA change fee waiver is for bookings made after 1 March only Newsroom - Coronavirus: Latest Information from American Airlines - American Airlines Group, Inc.
delta is the same, the blanket change fee waiver is for bookings made from 1 March https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...travel-updates
Mar 9, 2020, 6:04 pm
#86
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,944
Good point. I think this is a general provision which has existed for a while and not CV related?
Mar 9, 2020, 6:47 pm
#87
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, Paris
Programs: AA ExPlat 4MM, AA Life Plat, Lufthansa FT, Delta Basic
Posts: 1,593
What BA bookings have you got?
EDIT: by the way I tried to change an AY booking a week ago fo mid April which originated in northern Italy and destination HKG. I was told by AY any changes would be per the ticket rules. I see AY have issued a new waiver today (albeit it is badly worded and it’s not clear whether it covers just new bookings or existing bookings) so perhaps changes may be allowed now without a cost.
EDIT2: just checked AA’s policy as you mention them. Setting aside flights which are cancelled, AA change fee waiver is for bookings made after 1 March only Newsroom - Coronavirus: Latest Information from American Airlines - American Airlines Group, Inc.
delta is the same, the blanket change fee waiver is for bookings made from 1 March https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...travel-updates
EDIT: by the way I tried to change an AY booking a week ago fo mid April which originated in northern Italy and destination HKG. I was told by AY any changes would be per the ticket rules. I see AY have issued a new waiver today (albeit it is badly worded and it’s not clear whether it covers just new bookings or existing bookings) so perhaps changes may be allowed now without a cost.
EDIT2: just checked AA’s policy as you mention them. Setting aside flights which are cancelled, AA change fee waiver is for bookings made after 1 March only Newsroom - Coronavirus: Latest Information from American Airlines - American Airlines Group, Inc.
delta is the same, the blanket change fee waiver is for bookings made from 1 March https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...travel-updates
I got a free change on AA last week, ticket issued in January, but after some pleading. Initial request was answered with a fee. Then waived by the AAdvantage Elite agent. Delta only hearsay by colleagues who had apparently no problem. Southwest widely discussed and praised. Seems LH and LX are also generous. AF KLM sent me a convoluted email hard to understand but I needed not pay much attention.
Mar 9, 2020, 10:27 pm
#88
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
My Finnair free change was okayed 3 days ago on principle, done only yesterday because I took time to select the dates.
I got a free change on AA last week, ticket issued in January, but after some pleading. Initial request was answered with a fee. Then waived by the AAdvantage Elite agent. Delta only hearsay by colleagues who had apparently no problem. Southwest widely discussed and praised. Seems LH and LX are also generous. AF KLM sent me a convoluted email hard to understand but I needed not pay much attention.
I got a free change on AA last week, ticket issued in January, but after some pleading. Initial request was answered with a fee. Then waived by the AAdvantage Elite agent. Delta only hearsay by colleagues who had apparently no problem. Southwest widely discussed and praised. Seems LH and LX are also generous. AF KLM sent me a convoluted email hard to understand but I needed not pay much attention.
Mar 9, 2020, 11:13 pm
#89
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 629
I have no idea of what percentage of tickets "changeable for a fee" actually get changed against the fee payment under normal circumstances, but I am certain that the airlines know about it: Is it 5%, maybe 10% ? At any rate it is probably a fairly constant figure over a year in normal market conditions. So the airlines normally cash in the change fee for... 5, 10 % of this kind of tickets.
Comes an extraordinary, dangerous and scary situation like Covi-19. Many people will want to change and the percentage may jump to 50, 60 or more % of the tickets (planes are flying empty, 18 pax in an A 321 between Paris and Athens last week), hence the long wait lines to reach the airlines by phone. Rebooking costs NOTHING or almost for the airlines (especially considering the paltry pay of reservation agents) and the money they receive from the fees constitutes a BONANZA. Again, nobody is talking about cancellations or refunds here.That is what I call profiteering and what I assimilate to avoiding restrictions through black market in a time of war. During WW2, profiteers were jailed or even shot. Back to the airlines, waiving the change fee in such exceptional situations actually costs them very little, just the fee for the usual 5 or 10% who always change as a fairly constant percentage.
Do airlines lose passengers because of the situation ? Yes but this is an entirely different matter.
A few airlines have understood this very well. To answer Hawk777's question, YES, I have had a reservation for next week from the US to Europe on Finnair , originally booked in October 2019, changed yesterday by 5 weeks for NOTHING, and AMEX which handled my reservation also waived the usual $ 39 they charge each time they touch any booking, as "If the airline waives the fee, so do we". This is ETHICAL, HONORABLE, in one word not profiteering. A few other airlines, Southwest, Delta, even AA on a case by case basis (I suspect that being an elite FF member helps).
Still answering Hawk777, yes I do have BA bookings which I try to change without paying the change fee. ( I simply wait as long as possible, hoping for a policy change). If 1 million passengers (intentionally a very small estimate) pay 300 euros each to change a booking that they would not have changed under normal circumstances, this is 300 Million euros that BA would not have received "under those normal circumstances". Nobody is asking BA to absorb a cost... In fact, there is almost no cost, just an unexpected BONANZA. If this is not Profiteering, what is ? Again, yes the airlines suffer from the pandemic but so do all other sectors of the economy. I am only talking here about rebooking. not macro-economics.
I am sorry that some in this thread consider this a rant. For me it is anything but.
Comes an extraordinary, dangerous and scary situation like Covi-19. Many people will want to change and the percentage may jump to 50, 60 or more % of the tickets (planes are flying empty, 18 pax in an A 321 between Paris and Athens last week), hence the long wait lines to reach the airlines by phone. Rebooking costs NOTHING or almost for the airlines (especially considering the paltry pay of reservation agents) and the money they receive from the fees constitutes a BONANZA. Again, nobody is talking about cancellations or refunds here.That is what I call profiteering and what I assimilate to avoiding restrictions through black market in a time of war. During WW2, profiteers were jailed or even shot. Back to the airlines, waiving the change fee in such exceptional situations actually costs them very little, just the fee for the usual 5 or 10% who always change as a fairly constant percentage.
Do airlines lose passengers because of the situation ? Yes but this is an entirely different matter.
A few airlines have understood this very well. To answer Hawk777's question, YES, I have had a reservation for next week from the US to Europe on Finnair , originally booked in October 2019, changed yesterday by 5 weeks for NOTHING, and AMEX which handled my reservation also waived the usual $ 39 they charge each time they touch any booking, as "If the airline waives the fee, so do we". This is ETHICAL, HONORABLE, in one word not profiteering. A few other airlines, Southwest, Delta, even AA on a case by case basis (I suspect that being an elite FF member helps).
Still answering Hawk777, yes I do have BA bookings which I try to change without paying the change fee. ( I simply wait as long as possible, hoping for a policy change). If 1 million passengers (intentionally a very small estimate) pay 300 euros each to change a booking that they would not have changed under normal circumstances, this is 300 Million euros that BA would not have received "under those normal circumstances". Nobody is asking BA to absorb a cost... In fact, there is almost no cost, just an unexpected BONANZA. If this is not Profiteering, what is ? Again, yes the airlines suffer from the pandemic but so do all other sectors of the economy. I am only talking here about rebooking. not macro-economics.
I am sorry that some in this thread consider this a rant. For me it is anything but.
Also another daft accusation of paltry pay for booking agents just checked my pay slips and I certainly don't do wider what I earn paltry.
and rebooking does cost say someone bought a cheap ticket for a random midweek and the airlines given them a free change outside of the t and cs and they want to change it to a date that is in peak travel season so usually a lot more expensive ticket, the airlines have then lost out on the price of that ticket
Mar 9, 2020, 11:26 pm
#90
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SEA, YVR
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Flying Blue Gold, BA Silver, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 568
I’ll chime in. I have 4 upcoming ba flights (London, nice, Glasgow, Seattle) in the next few weeks and I thought I’d call in today to see whether I could postpone without any fees but no luck. Would I have wanted to have that option and do I think ba would build more goodwill if they offered this? Obviously yes. But I also think if it’s so dangerous that I don’t want to fly, then I’d just pay the change fees, in the grand scheme of things it’s not a huge amount of money for peace of mind. In any case I’m going to wait and see how things play out before deciding whether to fly or not, but my decision will be based more on the odds of travel disruption, quarantine, or number of new cases rather than waived change fees. Arguably even if something happens, I’d be better off with the NHS than the shambles that we call health care in the US!