24 people in CE; 8 bottles of champers loaded...
Feb 16, 2020, 4:40 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
Maybe not 100% logical, but it's 100% practical. There's a standard bar loading, so every flight will go out with 10 gin, 7 vodka etc. Can you imagine the logistical complexity of forecasting what everyone wants to drink on every flight? it's hard enough to for everyone to get their choice of one or two meals, let alone the 50 (? No idea) drinks options/combos.
Adding to the complexity of that every item has a known weight, and so knowing in advance how much each trolley and canister weigh is very important to correctly and safely balancing the aircraft.
The result of this is that if you're the only passenger in a cabin, you know you can have everything (within reason) from the bar. You'd be pretty annoyed if you were booked in an empty cabin and they'd loaded one gin, one lager, and one champagne as that's what the computer profile said you'd likely want.
Much like food availability, it's never going to suit everyone, and from time to time, things are going to run out. It's a fact of life on a plane.
(BA do try and forecast for Buy on Board, and on known busy flights load extra of certain things, but that's a whole different ballgame)
Adding to the complexity of that every item has a known weight, and so knowing in advance how much each trolley and canister weigh is very important to correctly and safely balancing the aircraft.
The result of this is that if you're the only passenger in a cabin, you know you can have everything (within reason) from the bar. You'd be pretty annoyed if you were booked in an empty cabin and they'd loaded one gin, one lager, and one champagne as that's what the computer profile said you'd likely want.
Much like food availability, it's never going to suit everyone, and from time to time, things are going to run out. It's a fact of life on a plane.
(BA do try and forecast for Buy on Board, and on known busy flights load extra of certain things, but that's a whole different ballgame)
Feb 16, 2020, 4:56 pm
#33
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,644
You'd need an army of people to decide what to load, not too mention an army of people counting every item in the bar to get the correct amount, taking things out of "over catered" bars, rather than simply filling every bar up to a known standard.
Are those logistics complicated enough?
Feb 16, 2020, 4:59 pm
#34
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: CLT
Programs: AA, Amex
Posts: 419
I suppose to be fair it's entirely possible that they have enough data points on how many drinks are consumed and that this is a statistically exceptional case.
Feb 16, 2020, 5:01 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
How exactly are you going to decide what to load for 1 person? 2 people? 50 people? How much of each item do you need to ensure that everyone gets exactly what they want to drink in the correct quantities? And then, where are you going to put it all? Valentines Day flight to Prague, 50 people booked each way... One bottle each? Two? Three? 300 bottles of champagne for a return flight! What are you going to take away from the bar to fit that in? The gin? Red wine? Bitter lemon? How exactly would you do it baring in mind you have to do it for EVERY flight individually, taking into consideration the day of the week/time of day/weekend/holiday/composition of pax/number of children/weather...... Suddenly having a standard bar loading looks pretty sensible.
You'd need an army of people to decide what to load, not too mention an army of people counting every item in the bar to get the correct amount, taking things out of "over catered" bars, rather than simply filling every bar up to a known standard.
Are those logistics complicated enough?
You'd need an army of people to decide what to load, not too mention an army of people counting every item in the bar to get the correct amount, taking things out of "over catered" bars, rather than simply filling every bar up to a known standard.
Are those logistics complicated enough?
If it’s that complicated maybe they shouldn’t be allowed to drive a plane that operates in 3 dimensions at 500mph??
Last edited by aristoph; Feb 16, 2020 at 5:18 pm
Feb 16, 2020, 5:01 pm
#36
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,741
BA's sales page for Business states:
Complimentary bar service including champagne upon request
So if no champers, then perhaps a request for some combo would not be amiss.
Yes, 8 small bottles for 24 passengers seems a little on the short side. Did the crew make an effort to "downsell" - i.e. Would sir/madam like a G&T, and not offer champagne unless "upon request" so as to eke the stock out?
Complimentary bar service including champagne upon request
So if no champers, then perhaps a request for some combo would not be amiss.
Yes, 8 small bottles for 24 passengers seems a little on the short side. Did the crew make an effort to "downsell" - i.e. Would sir/madam like a G&T, and not offer champagne unless "upon request" so as to eke the stock out?
Feb 16, 2020, 5:04 pm
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
Oh please do read shefgab’s explanation of the AI required to compute that before you jump to a simplistic conclusion lol.
Last edited by aristoph; Feb 16, 2020 at 5:18 pm
Feb 16, 2020, 5:10 pm
#38
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 6,576
What’s stopping them from downselling further, Would sir/madam like an orange juice - it’s fresh and delicious! Or, may I educate sir/madam on benefits of hydration, it helps reduce wrinkles - so would you like a big or small glass of water?
Feb 16, 2020, 5:11 pm
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,105
You'd think though that the standard bar loading would account for like, the 95th percentile case or something like that. Mini bottles can't be that much weight to lug around, and if X amount don't get used, well, that's fewer to restock for the next flight. Not like they go bad in a day or week or whatever.
I suppose to be fair it's entirely possible that they have enough data points on how many drinks are consumed and that this is a statistically exceptional case.
I suppose to be fair it's entirely possible that they have enough data points on how many drinks are consumed and that this is a statistically exceptional case.
shefgab is absolutely right I suspect, that the same number of bottles are loaded regardless of how many people are seated in CE. I disagree with him/her that this is acceptable or that BA is incapable of doing better if it cared about its premium service.
Feb 16, 2020, 5:21 pm
#40
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
I haven't a clue however I suspect 20 years ago £400 wouldn't have been an uncommon price to pay for a seat in J on shorthaul.
Anyway...the BA forum has been moaning about Champagne quality/quantity for many a year. I suspect most of them still fly BA.
Goodbye Blue Top - Another Enhancement
Anyway...the BA forum has been moaning about Champagne quality/quantity for many a year. I suspect most of them still fly BA.
Goodbye Blue Top - Another Enhancement
Feb 16, 2020, 5:24 pm
#41
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Executive Club Blue
Posts: 969
For domestic and band one and two flights, 16 bottles of Champagne are loaded for the return trip. I am yet to operate a flight where it’s run out: on business routes it’s not a popular option and on leisure routes it’s mostly drunk by Brits, and people tend to drink less alcohol on the way back from their break than on the way out.
Band 3 and 4 flights get 32 bottles of champagne for the return trip.There simply isn’t the space to carry any more champagne than this without reducing the stock of something else.
In my experience on the rare occasion we completely run out of anything, it’s beer.
Band 3 and 4 flights get 32 bottles of champagne for the return trip.There simply isn’t the space to carry any more champagne than this without reducing the stock of something else.
In my experience on the rare occasion we completely run out of anything, it’s beer.
Feb 16, 2020, 5:49 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,644
PS. I have nothing to do with how BA chooses to load their bars, but do understand that in the finite space of an aircraft galley (on an Embraer of all planes!), with ever changing passenger demands that can never be 100% predicted, you are NEVER going to get it right 100% of the time. I think unfortunately, this is one of those times! I imagine if EVERY flight they ran out of champagne (which I know isn't the case), they'd probably start loading more!
Feb 16, 2020, 6:21 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA, U2+, SK, AF/KL, IHG, Hilton, others gathering dust...
Posts: 2,552
For domestic and band one and two flights, 16 bottles of Champagne are loaded for the return trip. I am yet to operate a flight where it’s run out: on business routes it’s not a popular option and on leisure routes it’s mostly drunk by Brits, and people tend to drink less alcohol on the way back from their break than on the way out.
Band 3 and 4 flights get 32 bottles of champagne for the return trip.There simply isn’t the space to carry any more champagne than this without reducing the stock of something else.
In my experience on the rare occasion we completely run out of anything, it’s beer.
Band 3 and 4 flights get 32 bottles of champagne for the return trip.There simply isn’t the space to carry any more champagne than this without reducing the stock of something else.
In my experience on the rare occasion we completely run out of anything, it’s beer.
I know it ran out, because although I rarely drink champagne (or much alcohol at all) on short haul flights, I did have the sole bottle that day. In fairness, I would agree that it’s a rarity IME for the bar to run out of things on BACF flights, though I don’t tend to fly the longest sectors.
Last edited by Oaxaca; Feb 16, 2020 at 6:37 pm
Feb 16, 2020, 6:41 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
Programs: BAEC Silver, Miles and More(FTL), IHG(Platinum), Accor, HHonors(Diamond), SPG, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 5,917
i believe prague is band 2, 16 bottles for the return on band 2 would be 8 each way. if so the outbound did not overconsume
i am surprised to learn that the bar is loaded based on band and not based on a mix of the band and the load like the meals are.
every day is a school day
i am surprised to learn that the bar is loaded based on band and not based on a mix of the band and the load like the meals are.
every day is a school day
Feb 16, 2020, 8:38 pm
#45
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I'm not really a champagne guy, I flew F last week and had a glass, cuz it seemed like the thing to do, the best part is it takes me a while to drink so I won't drink too much of it lol.
What's the champagne math here though? I dunno how many glasses to a bottle. Gotta be at least 6 no? So, 48 glasses of champagne for 24 people? 2 per person? If I'm right, that SEEMS pretty reasonable to me as I don't think too many people would drink more than 2, not drinks, but champagne just doesn't seem like the kinda drink to kinda indulge in, for me that's more the wine or spirits category.
What's the champagne math here though? I dunno how many glasses to a bottle. Gotta be at least 6 no? So, 48 glasses of champagne for 24 people? 2 per person? If I'm right, that SEEMS pretty reasonable to me as I don't think too many people would drink more than 2, not drinks, but champagne just doesn't seem like the kinda drink to kinda indulge in, for me that's more the wine or spirits category.