787-9 appalling World Traveller seats

Old Jan 31, 2020, 11:09 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Misco60
And it's probably even less comfortable when premium passengers treat the economy cabin as an exercise circuit. Don't do it.
Very reasonable point.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 11:09 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by krispy84
QR 787s are 9 abreast as well. Coming back from DOH last week, I was going to do my usual mid flight walking loop but gave up half way down the first Y aisle. I was having to essentially crab it sideways down the aisle because of all the shoulders and legs sticking out. It didnít look comfortable at all, and I have flown a fair bit of longhaul Y.
I had a recent 10 hr QR flight on the 787 in Y and didn't have any problems.

Regarding the BA fleet, Seatguru suggests that the B787, A350 & A30 all have about 17.5" of seat width in Y. Why does the 787 fare less favourably?
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 11:29 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77
Funny you should say that. I commute to BOG 15 times a year and take the A340 but not a fan of it. I find it worn and the worst of LH aircrafts. I wish BA restarted the route. The fact that BA does not even file fares from EU to BOG means I cannot fly BA, or use gufs...
It is one of the oldest planes in LH fleet but i have found that LH keeps their plane in an impecable condition ( compare to BA and their 777 that falling apart...) It is true that BA does not have any flights from London which is weird to be honest. I mean they fly to Lima. I am not an expert but i am sure the flight to Bogota will be much busier than Lima ones.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 12:36 pm
  #34  
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I do a lot of long haul flying in Y and generally don't whinge too much about it. But 9-across on a 787 is a step too far. Ditto, 10-across 777. I just avoid those flights.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 12:41 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by ermis177
It is one of the oldest planes in LH fleet but i have found that LH keeps their plane in an impecable condition ( compare to BA and their 777 that falling apart...) It is true that BA does not have any flights from London which is weird to be honest. I mean they fly to Lima. I am not an expert but i am sure the flight to Bogota will be much busier than Lima ones.
It's something I used to ask some pals in Flight Ops/Network planning.

Apparently BA uses specific performance parameters for their planes when choosing which one to fly on a specific route. As a rule, the BA 'envelope' has smaller margins than the OEM's. In other words, if - say - Airbus says that you can have a plane with MTOW = 100t for a runway 2000 meters long at 1000 meters of altitude, BA will say that the MTOW for the plane can only be 90t (so they err on the side of caution).

Based on all this, the response is that BOG cannot be done with any plane without having punishing load limitations because of sector length, altitude of the airport and prevailing winds on the return leg. The fact that Avianca seems to be able to somehow pull it off is, apparently, irrelevant.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 1:29 pm
  #36  
 
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13901 i have heard about the limitations and restirctions due to the high altitude that BOG airport has but to be honest this is a too technical conversation for me. My knowledge is quite limited. Saying that, i have taken this flight (Avianca LHR-BOG) more than 10 times the last 2 years and its always full or almost full. Bogota is in a very advantage position as you can connect both ways ( Central America) and South America ( Ecuador, Peru). Most of these desitnations pretty much a 2 hours flight.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 1:48 pm
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Originally Posted by ermis177
13901 i have heard about the limitations and restirctions due to the high altitude that BOG airport has but to be honest this is a too technical conversation for me. My knowledge is quite limited. Saying that, i have taken this flight (Avianca LHR-BOG) more than 10 times the last 2 years and its always full or almost full. Bogota is in a very advantage position as you can connect both ways ( Central America) and South America ( Ecuador, Peru). Most of these desitnations pretty much a 2 hours flight.
Preaching to the choir here buddy! Every time BA announced Pittsburgh, Nashville, Oakland, Ft. Lauderdale, Austin, Kalamazoo, Fort Wayne, Polk, Whateverville I used to ask "What has Bogotŗ done not to deserve a flight?" and without fail this was the answer; it doesn't mean it's not doable full stop, it just means that for BA's (more restrictive) parameters, it cannot be done without serious uplift limitations.

Going back to the 787 topic, I've flown it and I've sat in it during the tests, and I've flown LATAM's and JAL's. The difference between JAL and the others is of course evident, 2-4-2 makes for an extremely dignified flying experience, but they're the only one worldwide flying it. My experience on LATAM was really good, my BA flying experience was decent, and my BA experience on the ground was quite awful. The difference between all three was who was sat next to me and, crucially, the IFE box. On BA the Thales box is really a pain in the butt; on LATAM, where I had both feet free to move about, it was a lot better.

Having said that, I'd take an A330/340 over a 777/787 anytime.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:06 pm
  #38  
 
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I purposely don't sit in those seats because of the immovable armrests. I'm a bit of a fat guy so I hate having those walls all up against my upper thighs and stuff. It's not so bad if I have shoulder space, but damn, I sat exit row on a KLM 777, only because the guy sitting next to my normal seat was a big fat guy who actively took seat from me, elbows, knees, shoulders and all. So I bailed on that, and the only other seat left was exit row. As I sat there across from me was a flight attendant in her jump seat, she could see the look on my face, I hate tray flimsy tray table, I hate the screen angle, the arms, I hate it all, and she says to me "I know what you mean" without having said anything lol. Then I took a better look at her and saw while she was attractive and relatively thin, she was quite hippy. Those seats are just miserable.

My 787 experiences have almost always been in Y and are usually fine, EXCEPT the one time I flew BA LHR-YYC. I had either the whole row to myself (cant recall, its been a while) or at least an open seat next to me. The armrest goes up annnd stops. Who designs an armrest that goes 80% of the way up but not all the way!??!?!
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:20 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by drvannostren

My 787 experiences have almost always been in Y and are usually fine, EXCEPT the one time I flew BA LHR-YYC. I had either the whole row to myself (cant recall, its been a while) or at least an open seat next to me. The armrest goes up annnd stops. Who designs an armrest that goes 80% of the way up but not all the way!??!?!
Recaro.

it's a design 'feature' of these Recaro seats, mounted on BA's 777 and 787 fleets (as well as a number of other airlines, I'd say some QR and JL planes from memory). Basically, the seat back is designed to be slightly larger in correspondence of the upper torso and shoulder areas than it is in the lower part of the seat. As it does, it prevents the armrests from going all the way up. A bit stupid I know.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:20 pm
  #40  
 
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Didn’t BA operate Bogota London Gatwick on 777s back in the day? (Late 90s?) May have been via Venezuela....
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by tc69
May I also say how much I value and enjoy CWS's posts and advice, as I do yours! I was horrified to see that it was his post that I was objecting to, and only noticed that it was him after I had posted. But, really this was only a small request to stop the stereotypes, as a South East Asian origin person, like myself. I do know he didn't mean to write that malay people are not assertive, but that's how the contrast on his sentence came across to me. Just like others in other posts have pointed out that the nationality that typically follows 'obnoxious' is not really relevant, I just wanted to point out that nationality was not relevant here.

In case of any doubt, let me repeat how much I have enjoyed and value your and CWS's posts over the years!
I think, with all due respect, youíve read CWSí post completely the wrong way and have reacted too sensitively.

Whilst not specifically relevant, the description gave an understanding of context to the post and allows us to visualise the situation with more clarity. It has nothing to do with, nor can it reasonably be, construed as some kind of stereotyping, merely an accurate description of the passenger involved.

As to being less assertive than CWS, well, it appears that the Malaysian student next to CWS was just, by personality, less assertive. The post drew no connection between the fact that the Malaysian student was less assertive because she was a slim Malaysian student which, in my view, is an insinuation you have made and not CWS.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:36 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Skipcool3
Didnít BA operate Bogota London Gatwick on 777s back in the day? (Late 90s?) May have been via Venezuela....
Yes, as a 744. Three days a week - Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays - BA2249 would depart LGW North at 10:15 hrs to CCS, taking 9 hours 20 minutes, and then on to BOG for the 2 hour hop. BA didn't have 5th freedom rights between CCS and BOG.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 2:47 pm
  #43  
 
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Never flown on a 787 and will go out of my way to ensure I never will. I’d rather take an indirect route and be comfortable than be trapped on the nightmareliner.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 3:04 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by wb1969
Never flown on a 787 and will go out of my way to ensure I never will. Iíd rather take an indirect route and be comfortable than be trapped on the nightmareliner.
Indeed. Makes me wonder why those who hate it make such a song and dance about it. I can only assume they're either being forced or taking one for the team. Anyway, play your cards right and a seat in WT+ can be had for a decent price.
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Old Jan 31, 2020, 4:20 pm
  #45  
 
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What I find stupefyingly odd is that the actual cost difference between 10 across and 9 across must be very small. Take an economy fare and strip away the taxes which BA never sees, and the difference of c.11% is small. Would passengers prefer crampt conditions for 8+8 hours (TATL) for maybe <$100? Of course, we're told price is everything. No-one has ever asked me!
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Last edited by CKBA; Jan 31, 2020 at 11:58 pm
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