Last edit by: Prospero
The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
For the 2019 thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1948451-2019-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
For the 2019 thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1948451-2019-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html
The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
#512
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,462
Note that BA are rebooking on to Lufthansa so you need to take this into account, for a number of the specific details.
#513
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TPA
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, FM Prem, SPG gold
Posts: 581
In my below case, I was told No by BA within 48 hours of my ec261 request
BA: "I'd like to inform you that your claim for compensation under EU legislation has been refused because, BA0067 on 02 November was moved to a different time due to commercial reasons."
Isn't a commercial reason the exact reason EC261 exists? What would be the suggested follow up. USA based.
BA: "I'd like to inform you that your claim for compensation under EU legislation has been refused because, BA0067 on 02 November was moved to a different time due to commercial reasons."
Isn't a commercial reason the exact reason EC261 exists? What would be the suggested follow up. USA based.
Booked IST>LHR>PHL>TPA on Oct21 to fly on NOV02
BA IST>LHR 10:00-11:30
BA LHR>PHL 2:15-5:15
AA PHL>TPA 7:05-9:43
Booked an AA ticket, but with BA flights on the first two segments.
Oct25 I got an email about a random reservation (not in my name) changed on AA. I asked on twitter and they said the rep I called hadn't closed out my flight before editing someone else's. I said I hadn't called. They said sorry and I had a flight change and someone was trying to fix it for me.
Turns out the LHR>PHL (BA67) had changed to a 4:15 departure and it would make me miss my PHL flight. There were no other options besides an overnight in PHL.
I did a lot of communication with AA over twitter and in person once at the airport. They claim they never change the flight time and AA had just booked my ticket with a wrong time & and illegal connection.
When I arrived in PHL, AA said BA would need to take care of my hotel. BA said they didn't since AA booked the wrong ticket but finally caved. (they put me in a Clarion which was pretty dumpy, but whatever...) The BA rep told me the flight time had been changed Nov 19 (two days before I booked, and 14 days before the flight), but in LHR they kept telling my this flight had ALWAYS been a 4:15 departure.
Clearly BA changed the schedule but never told AA, or AA just failed to update their system and sold me an illegal ticket.
Do I have any chance at EC 261? I arrived over 12 hours late. The flight was not formally delayed, but a miss communicated schedule change less than 14 days out caused me to miss connect. BA operated the flight, I feel it should be on them, even though AA seems to have dropped the ball.
BA IST>LHR 10:00-11:30
BA LHR>PHL 2:15-5:15
AA PHL>TPA 7:05-9:43
Booked an AA ticket, but with BA flights on the first two segments.
Oct25 I got an email about a random reservation (not in my name) changed on AA. I asked on twitter and they said the rep I called hadn't closed out my flight before editing someone else's. I said I hadn't called. They said sorry and I had a flight change and someone was trying to fix it for me.
Turns out the LHR>PHL (BA67) had changed to a 4:15 departure and it would make me miss my PHL flight. There were no other options besides an overnight in PHL.
I did a lot of communication with AA over twitter and in person once at the airport. They claim they never change the flight time and AA had just booked my ticket with a wrong time & and illegal connection.
When I arrived in PHL, AA said BA would need to take care of my hotel. BA said they didn't since AA booked the wrong ticket but finally caved. (they put me in a Clarion which was pretty dumpy, but whatever...) The BA rep told me the flight time had been changed Nov 19 (two days before I booked, and 14 days before the flight), but in LHR they kept telling my this flight had ALWAYS been a 4:15 departure.
Clearly BA changed the schedule but never told AA, or AA just failed to update their system and sold me an illegal ticket.
Do I have any chance at EC 261? I arrived over 12 hours late. The flight was not formally delayed, but a miss communicated schedule change less than 14 days out caused me to miss connect. BA operated the flight, I feel it should be on them, even though AA seems to have dropped the ball.
#514
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,462
Indeed it is. See my previous reply to you at 466 plus posts 484 and 485, CEDR would the route for you unless your state or county has a small claims procedure that would view EC261 as contractural.
#515
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 73
Male - London cancellation
Hi All,
Hoping to receive guidance on the viability of an EU261 claim under the following circumstances;
Flew outbound, without issue, to Male on Wednesday 4th Nov. As part of the same booking, was scheduled to return to London on Thursday 12th Nov at 11:25.
Happened to look at the BA app on the afternoon of Thursday 5th November to find the inbound flight was cancelled. No reason was stated. No other contact was received. This was just within 7 days of scheduled departure time.
Phoned BA immediately to discuss options. Was offered seats on the final BA operated flight to London on Monday 9th November, which I declined as unsuitable. I was then offered the next available BA flight on 3rd December, which I declined.
After some discussion, I was offered seats on Qatar Airways on Sunday 15th November, which I accepted.
A search of SkyScanner revealed no flights on any airline that would depart within 2 hours and arrive within 1 hour of the original schedule. We were not offered travel on the nearest alternative flights to our schedule which were with Emirates.
I understand I have no right to claim consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, because I declined the offer to fly home three days early. I totally accept this. However, as far as I can see, BA cancelled the flight due to commercial reasons. There was no reason not to operate the flight, BA simply chose not to. Based on that, do I stand a reasonable chance of being eligible for EU261 cancellation compensation?
Thank you in advance for any thoughts or guidance.
Hoping to receive guidance on the viability of an EU261 claim under the following circumstances;
Flew outbound, without issue, to Male on Wednesday 4th Nov. As part of the same booking, was scheduled to return to London on Thursday 12th Nov at 11:25.
Happened to look at the BA app on the afternoon of Thursday 5th November to find the inbound flight was cancelled. No reason was stated. No other contact was received. This was just within 7 days of scheduled departure time.
Phoned BA immediately to discuss options. Was offered seats on the final BA operated flight to London on Monday 9th November, which I declined as unsuitable. I was then offered the next available BA flight on 3rd December, which I declined.
After some discussion, I was offered seats on Qatar Airways on Sunday 15th November, which I accepted.
A search of SkyScanner revealed no flights on any airline that would depart within 2 hours and arrive within 1 hour of the original schedule. We were not offered travel on the nearest alternative flights to our schedule which were with Emirates.
I understand I have no right to claim consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, because I declined the offer to fly home three days early. I totally accept this. However, as far as I can see, BA cancelled the flight due to commercial reasons. There was no reason not to operate the flight, BA simply chose not to. Based on that, do I stand a reasonable chance of being eligible for EU261 cancellation compensation?
Thank you in advance for any thoughts or guidance.
#516
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,462
I understand I have no right to claim consequential losses such as hotel accommodation, because I declined the offer to fly home three days early. I totally accept this. However, as far as I can see, BA cancelled the flight due to commercial reasons. There was no reason not to operate the flight, BA simply chose not to. Based on that, do I stand a reasonable chance of being eligible for EU261 cancellation compensation?
#517
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,568
Is CEDR now viewed as better than MCOL? From previous posts, I came to the conclusion that CEDR takes ages and tends to end up in lots of discussion, whereas MCOL just gets down to the facts and decides. My thinking may be out of date.
#518
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,462
It still depends on the specifics of the case, and also whether we get to see the text of a similar CEDR judgement, which isn't that often. So for "commercial" reasons, 484 seems a good signpost. But complexities such as GUFs and Companion Voucher valuation, MCOL may well be a better approach. I don't think CEDR is particularly slow, I went most of the way through the process within a month of travel for my claim a year or two back, but there were some delays during the WFH stages. MCOL does have quite a strict timetable process, which applies equally to both sides.
#519
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 73
This looks quite similar to other recent cases, so I will refer you to posts 484 and 485. BA won't be paying compensation of their own initiative (unless thiere is yet another policy change) but CEDR should make it happen. I also think you are within your rights to claim for the extra accommodation since it would be difficult to argue that lopping 3 days off your vacation is a reasonable thing to do. In any event the wording of Article 5.1.b doesn't give BA a get out clause. The argument for this is stronger than the argument for the 600 compensation payment - and from the other threads for MLE and SEZ there are two reports there of BA documenting their willingness to pay right to care. For the compensation component, BA could reasonably offer 300 since their first offer would have got you home early and thus compensation is halved. Obviously I would still claim for 600 based on that being an unsuitable return date.
#520
Join Date: Apr 2014
Programs: BA Exec Club Gold, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 214
I flew to GiG with KLM
My return GRU to LHR with BA on 17 Nov is cancelled and I will now return 19 Nov on the next BA flight
Can I claim duty of care for 2 night accommodation where I am staying in Rio extending my current stay ?
What is the food allowance/day?
I need to buy a new connection to GRU on 19th but I think this is down to me to pay - can you confirm ?
Thanks in advance for any advice ...
My return GRU to LHR with BA on 17 Nov is cancelled and I will now return 19 Nov on the next BA flight
Can I claim duty of care for 2 night accommodation where I am staying in Rio extending my current stay ?
What is the food allowance/day?
I need to buy a new connection to GRU on 19th but I think this is down to me to pay - can you confirm ?
Thanks in advance for any advice ...
Very impressive....
#521
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: krisflyer
Posts: 135
My flight in J from IST - LHR was re-timed from 5.30pm to 8.05am. Also a new flight number.
What are my choices? I understand I might be able to
1) accept the new flight
2) make BA pay for a nights hotel and fly the next morning at 8.05am as I cant make the prior 8.05am
3) make BA route me onto Turkish at 2.40pm. Assume I dont earn the TPs?
What is the most feasible? Obviously 2 and 3 sounds better but is this how I should go about doing it?
2) I should call in to change my flight to the next day, then pay out of my pocket for the additional hotel and meal, and when I get back to London I should submit a claim of up to 600(?) for the extra night + meal?
3) Call in to BA to request?
Many thanks
What are my choices? I understand I might be able to
1) accept the new flight
2) make BA pay for a nights hotel and fly the next morning at 8.05am as I cant make the prior 8.05am
3) make BA route me onto Turkish at 2.40pm. Assume I dont earn the TPs?
What is the most feasible? Obviously 2 and 3 sounds better but is this how I should go about doing it?
2) I should call in to change my flight to the next day, then pay out of my pocket for the additional hotel and meal, and when I get back to London I should submit a claim of up to 600(?) for the extra night + meal?
3) Call in to BA to request?
Many thanks
Last edited by makrxx; Nov 29, 2020 at 10:08 am
#522
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,260
My flight in J from IST - LHR was re-timed from 5.30pm to 8.05am.
What are my choices? I understand I might be able to
1) accept the new flight
2) make BA pay for a nights hotel and fly the next morning at 8.05am as I cant make the prior 8.05am
3) make BA route me onto Turkish. Assume I lose my TPs?
What is the most feasible? Obviously 2 and 3 sounds better but just wondering how should I go about doing it if so?
Many thanks
What are my choices? I understand I might be able to
1) accept the new flight
2) make BA pay for a nights hotel and fly the next morning at 8.05am as I cant make the prior 8.05am
3) make BA route me onto Turkish. Assume I lose my TPs?
What is the most feasible? Obviously 2 and 3 sounds better but just wondering how should I go about doing it if so?
Many thanks
1 opens up EC261 compensation, if you're willing to go down that route. That might pay for the hotel.
And you're forgetting option 4 which is take a refund and make alternative arrangements.
#523
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: krisflyer
Posts: 135
2 would be difficult because they've offered you a same day alternative, and 3 only applies if your flight is imminent, typically on the day cancellations.
1 opens up EC261 compensation, if you're willing to go down that route. That might pay for the hotel.
And you're forgetting option 4 which is take a refund and make alternative arrangements.
1 opens up EC261 compensation, if you're willing to go down that route. That might pay for the hotel.
And you're forgetting option 4 which is take a refund and make alternative arrangements.
But if the flight is on the same day, I wouldnt incur an extra night technically so EC261 would cover the hotel? Let me read further into that.
I do want to make this trip happen as need to sort some personal matters out in IST. So I need a way to get back and guessing its easier to go with BA then book another ticket separately which will probably cost more as well.
#524
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,462
But if the flight is on the same day, I wouldn’t incur an extra night technically so EC261 would cover the hotel? Let me read further into that.
I do want to make this trip happen as need to sort some personal matters out in IST. So I need a way to get back and guessing it’s easier to go with BA then book another ticket separately which will probably cost more as well.
I do want to make this trip happen as need to sort some personal matters out in IST. So I need a way to get back and guessing it’s easier to go with BA then book another ticket separately which will probably cost more as well.
#525
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,015
4) Pretend that you haven't seen BA's attempts to contact you about the cancellation until 8.06 on the day of travel?