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The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Nov 7, 20, 4:07 am   -   Wikipost
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Old Feb 14, 20, 3:39 pm
  #181  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I would give a very similar answer to this as in post 173 above, it's not entirely clear cut and arguments can go both ways on this. There were ATC restrictions that day (but that's quite common anyway), what matters is the "all reasonable measures" issue. I imagine - given we have now 2 examples of this - that BA won't be changing their mind on the Monday cancellations, so you're probably looking at CEDR or MCOL for this. Which may play to your advantage since both will operate on the basis of "balance of probabilities" as to whether BA did everything they could to minimise disruption.
Thanks CWS - will update if I get anywhere!
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Old Feb 14, 20, 4:08 pm
  #182  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
The more usual reason for this happening is if it didn't fully ticket on the Iberia within the narrow window that Iberia gives for this. Given this was a fully automated booking this shouldn't happen, but if there was a glitch between BA and IB and it wasn't resolved within a short window, IB just cancels the ticket, and no-one follows up on this. It's more of a problem with manually processed bookings. Since you have an e-ticket then you are fully covered legally, Iberia will be the operating airline unless Iberia can prove that BA was at fault. If the GGL team can't resolve this then buy a cash ticket and seek a refund after travel.
thanks for the reply. Cash price is now £849 🤪
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Old Feb 17, 20, 12:54 pm
  #183  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I am at least 99% sure this is not in line with the wording or spirit of EC261. The criteria put down by BA (namely it's an on-the-day downgrade only) is simply not in the Regulation. So you either need to accept / renegotiate the goodwill gesture + difference or go CEDR. For the goodwill gesture you could ask for Avios instead of the e-voucher, they usually are happy to do that.
Just to update, BA have refused my/your interpretation;

"Thanks for your most recent email. I’m sorry to hear you remain unhappy with our resolution to your complaint. I’ve reviewed all of the information you’ve given us, however, our response will not change and we’re unable to respond to any further requests for a refund.

You can refer your complaint to the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (CEDR) for an independent decision to be made. CEDR is an independent dispute resolution provider, certified by the Civil Aviation Authority, to adjudicate disputes between airlines and their passengers which haven’t been resolved through the airline’s own complaints procedure. You can find out how to refer your complaint to CEDR by visiting their website: CEDR

Please note that the scope of the adjudication scheme is limited and it could be that your complaint falls outside of it. If you choose to contact CEDR, they’ll be able to advise you if they’re able to deal with your complaint. You may also use the European Commission’s online dispute resolution platform to submit your complaint if you wish. This can be done by completing the electronic form available via this link:

https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/odr/mai...main.home.show

If your claim falls within the scope of the CEDR Scheme Rules and your application to CEDR is accepted, any previous offer of settlement made by British Airways will be withdrawn. If the application is taken to adjudication, the adjudicator's decision will be final."


It's a pretty mean-ly and threateningly written email, I thought.

This email has changed the mind of the pax and they're now scared of taking the case to CEDR as they don't want to lose the eVoucher. I imagine CEDR will take a very dim view of BA withdrawing goodwill gestures if the case is put forward to them!
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Old Feb 17, 20, 1:21 pm
  #184  
 
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Voicemail from GGL this morning informing me that all my reward flights had been fully reinstated. Thanks all for your guidance anyway.
Seat selection on the other hand is a mystery and had to be done over the ☎️
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Old Feb 17, 20, 2:26 pm
  #185  
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Originally Posted by shadowline View Post
It's a pretty mean-ly and threateningly written email, I thought.

This email has changed the mind of the pax and they're now scared of taking the case to CEDR as they don't want to lose the eVoucher. I imagine CEDR will take a very dim view of BA withdrawing goodwill gestures if the case is put forward to them!
It's just their standard letter. My one and only claim against BA for EC261 also got that response, there was a 10k Avios customer service gesture at stake, which you can perhaps appreciate wasn't going to cut much ice with me. When it got to BA's paralegal, after referal to CEDR, my claim was met, and the 10k Avios wasn't withdrawn.
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Old Feb 17, 20, 2:31 pm
  #186  
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Originally Posted by shadowline View Post

It's a pretty mean-ly and threateningly written email, I thought.
Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems to be a perfectly reasonable letter to me setting out your options.
Often1 likes this.
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Old Feb 17, 20, 2:50 pm
  #187  
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It is a simple and matter-of-fact letter laying out the facts as BA perceives them and advising of options.

If it is the abrupt statement regarding not dealing with you further, that is both helpful and necessary. Helpful in letting you know that BA is done discussing the matter and that you may pursue it elsewhere and necessary in that CEDR, and frankly MCOL and small claims if you went that route, all want to know that BA's response is final.

I would go the CEDR route as it is binding on BA, but not on you. If you prevail, BA will abide by CEDR's determination. If BA prevails, you still have the MCOL option.
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Old Feb 17, 20, 3:56 pm
  #188  
 
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Hi all, I've read the wiki but I believe my case has a bit of grey area so I'd appreciate your advise. I'm also requesting compensation for two additional items outside of EC 261, so I'd like to know what process to use.

Facts: Booked and SJC-LHR-BEY return in CW. Both the LHR <> BEY segments were downgraded to an A321 with C/E seating. BA told me that I could cancel the flight or request compensation after my trip. I wasn't offered any compensation in London, but in Beirut I was given a 150 GBP gift card. I believe I should be entitled to the same amount for the LHR-BEY leg.

On the return, BA 148 BEY-LHR was delayed as BA neglected to do the daily safety check on the aircraft the day before so it had to be done in Beirut. When I arrived at Heathrow, I found that I had been automatically rebooked onto two DL flights the next day. I asked BA to put me on BA 287 instead. I wasn't able to get equivalent seats (window/aisle) that I paid for on my original flight ($120/pp). While this flight appears to be landing on time, it will land at SFO around two hours after my scheduled SJC arrival. I still need to get myself to SJC because my car is there, and then go home.

If I had taken BA's routing on DL I would surely have been eligible for compensation, but I'm not certain as I took a voluntary reroute and technically landed within 4 hours of my originally scheduled flight, albeit a different airport. If this isn't eligible for EC 261, I'll just request the 150 GBP for the seating downgrade and $120 for losing my paid seat.

Thanks for your guidance. If this is eligible for EC 261, should I submit two separate requests, or wrap it all into one?
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Old Feb 18, 20, 9:44 am
  #189  
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There is nothing gray here at all. You are not entitled to EC 261/2004 downgrade reimbursement or delay compensation. The gift card was just that, a "gift, e.g.a customer service gesture.

Taking this one step at a time:

1. While there are certainly differences between BA's two J products, e.g. Club World and Club Europe, BA successfully maintains that they are both "Business Class" and this you were not downgraded.

2. You did not "technically" arrive within the delay period, you actually and in fact did. Thus, no compensation for the non-delay. The fact that there were other routings which would have entitled you to compensation is irrelevant. Do note that if your arrival at your final ticketed destination was over 3 hours but less than 4, you would be entitled to 50% of the delay compensation, e.g. EUR 300.

As to #1 , I would send a note to customer service pointing out your disappointment with the degradation of service. BA may well send you something, although I suspect that it won't be cash equivalent as you received at BEY.
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Old Feb 18, 20, 10:09 am
  #190  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Taking this one step at a time:

1. While there are certainly differences between BA's two J products, e.g. Club World and Club Europe, BA successfully maintains that they are both "Business Class" and this you were not downgraded.
I believe you have correctly stated BA’s position. But, can you cite binding precedent which supports that position?

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
2. You did not "technically" arrive within the delay period, you actually and in fact did. Thus, no compensation for the non-delay. The fact that there were other routings which would have entitled you to compensation is irrelevant. Do note that if your arrival at your final ticketed destination was over 3 hours but less than 4, you would be entitled to 50% of the delay compensation, e.g. EUR 300.
Again, I suspect you have correctly stated BA’s position. However, if the poster actually arrived at SJC more than 3 hours after he would have arrived there if his flight to SJC had operated as scheduled, he may well have a claim against BA. I recognize it would not be as straightforward as claims where the wheels of the plane actually touch down more than 3 hours late, and may well require adjudication of some sort. But, it seems to me (not a lawyer) the claim would have enough merit that it has a chance of succeeding. (This assumes the underlying causes of delay are not extraordinary circumstances which BA could not have avoided even if it had taken all reasonable measures.)
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Old Feb 18, 20, 10:28 am
  #191  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post

2. You did not "technically" arrive within the delay period, you actually and in fact did. Thus, no compensation for the non-delay. The fact that there were other routings which would have entitled you to compensation is irrelevant. Do note that if your arrival at your final ticketed destination was over 3 hours but less than 4, you would be entitled to 50% of the delay compensation, e.g. EUR 300.
My ticketed destination was SJC, not SFO, and I defiantly arrived there 4 hours after my scheduled arrival at SJC. The ground transportation was at my own expense.

Not that it is relevant to my claim, but BA offered me a flight to my destination that arrived 24 hours later than scheduled. I offered to take a different routing saving BA on hotel and a J flight on DL. I still arrived at my final destination 4 hours delayed.
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Old Feb 19, 20, 8:28 am
  #192  
 
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
The more usual reason for this happening is if it didn't fully ticket on the Iberia within the narrow window that Iberia gives for this. Given this was a fully automated booking this shouldn't happen, but if there was a glitch between BA and IB and it wasn't resolved within a short window, IB just cancels the ticket, and no-one follows up on this. It's more of a problem with manually processed bookings. Since you have an e-ticket then you are fully covered legally, Iberia will be the operating airline unless Iberia can prove that BA was at fault. If the GGL team can't resolve this then buy a cash ticket and seek a refund after travel.
I had been keeping an eye on my booking via expertflyer and noticed today - two days after I had been told by BA everything was back on track - my seats had vanished. BA app was also showing no seats and that standard ‘seat selection available 24 hours before departure’. Before calling GGL again I checked the IB website and it errored when I punched in my booking reference. Upon calling the GGL line for the third time in less than a week the agent told me the booking was still live, but he couldn’t understand why the seats vanished. He kept me on the line and contacted IB. What came back underlined your point above. It was admitted that the ticket had indeed been cancelled by IB as it hadn’t been issued quickly enough (despite me having an E-ticket since Jan 05), and that there was no Avios availability on the rtn leg of my journey (I had been told that last week).

I have been told that yet again the ticket is there and I will have to wait 48h to reconfirm seats, but as I am flying in 5 days time, I feel I’m rather in the dark about the return leg of this journey next week. I don’t want to end up in a remote airport in Spain being told there is no valid ticket back to London as I have to be back that evening as I have work to attend to.


Tonight my booking has reverted back to this status which it was showing last Friday.


Last edited by Prospero; Feb 23, 20 at 5:58 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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Old Feb 19, 20, 3:52 pm
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Dicksbits View Post
I have been told that yet again the ticket is there and I will have to wait 48h to reconfirm seats, but as I am flying in 5 days time, I feel I’m rather in the dark about the return leg of this journey next week. I don’t want to end up in a remote airport in Spain being told there is no valid ticket back to London as I have to be back that evening as I have work to attend to.
I wouldn't be worried about Almería airport. It's not a big place, but it's efficient and not one of the really remote Iberia locations like say León or La Palma. I suspect you may be better looked after there than BCN in some ways. In theory at least, so long as you have a working ticket number everything else should be fixable.
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Old Feb 20, 20, 4:23 am
  #194  
 
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CEDR application if BA haven't answered my complaint?

I have lodged a request for a refund of elements of a flight cost (non EC261) back in November and asked for updates twice but no answer from BA other than the automated reply.

As a general question can I go to CEDR to get an answer and hopefully my refund if I haven't had a yes or a no from BA?
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Old Feb 23, 20, 4:47 am
  #195  
 
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Hello!

This time asking for myself.

LGW-INN cancelled with 8 hours’ notice because of crew shortage (this is what expertflyer says).

Automatically rebooked onto a later flight to Munich from LHR.

We’d checked our bags the night before so we had to go to the ticket desk when it opened to sort that out. We looked at options which all involved arriving at INN much later. We managed to book and make it in time for an EasyJet flight so we got our BA flight cancelled.

Am I correct in thinking that we’re eligible for EU compensation, a full refund of the flight (it’ll be fun as it was a Lloyds voucher booking) but not for repayment of the cost of the new flight?
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