Is TATL in F over the top for a toddler?

Old Dec 24, 19, 6:26 pm
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Is TATL in F over the top for a toddler?

Flying BA from NYC to LHR in the summer and was planning on flying J with a small child -- some frown on that, I know, but having a child in a flat bed for a decent night's sleep makes a world of difference the next day, and we do it pretty routinely. Haven't had any issues with behavior or pax complaints.

Looking at prices today, the difference between J and F is actually surprisingly small (round trip TATL F for just over 3k after discounts!). However, I can't recall ever seeing small children in F. Will the crew care? Is it a waste of time? Is it an even bigger taboo than bringing kids into J? I've never flown true international F myself and am a little intrigued. It would be in contrast to the CS in J and I've read that some even prefer the new J seats, so I know it's not a world-beating F product.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:31 pm
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Fill your boots. Your money, your family. Who are others to judge. I find loud drunk people to be more of a problem than children. Happy holidays
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:53 pm
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Agree. Do what you want. If folks complain, they are free to fly private or stay at home.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:06 pm
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There was a small child in my F JNB-LHR. I didnít mind (never mind) but the parents chose to not keep the child under any kind of control, to the point that I woke up to find a 2 year old trying to get into the bed with me (repeatedly)

donít be that kind of parent and youíll be fine

edit to add: the crew were absolutely fabulous with the adventurous child so I assume theyíre fairly used to dealing with it. On the way back there was a drunk man who was far more annoying. My primary concern with the kid was in the 21st century it doesnít look great to have such close contact with a random child!!
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Last edited by nancypants; Dec 24, 19 at 8:04 pm
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:21 pm
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Travel with your family in whichever cabin you wish, and donít give othersí opinions a second thought.

Merry Christmas.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:42 pm
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Originally Posted by OhDoctor View Post
Flying BA from NYC to LHR in the summer and was planning on flying J with a small child -- some frown on that, I know, but having a child in a flat bed for a decent night's sleep makes a world of difference the next day, and we do it pretty routinely. Haven't had any issues with behavior or pax complaints.

Looking at prices today, the difference between J and F is actually surprisingly small (round trip TATL F for just over 3k after discounts!). However, I can't recall ever seeing small children in F. Will the crew care? Is it a waste of time? Is it an even bigger taboo than bringing kids into J? I've never flown true international F myself and am a little intrigued. It would be in contrast to the CS in J and I've read that some even prefer the new J seats, so I know it's not a world-beating F product.
Do it, I love the JFK CCR it is really something special to start your trip with. I have flown in F with multiple babies, it makes the trip so much nicer and allows you to give the children the best possible rest and comfort (not to mention you as well)! No point to even addressing the questions of will crew care, etc as the baby will make their day, its the losers yakking on their phones, drunks and the self-important (wannabe) that are the problem.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:54 pm
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Nothing wrong with toddlers in F in my experience when the parents are responsible and caring for the child. It's the uber entitled ones who have always paid someone to look after their child and then on the aircraft they can't be bothered having to deal with actual parenting
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Old Dec 24, 19, 9:13 pm
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Agree with others that there is no question of taboo or othersí happiness/unhappiness with the principles. That said, two points:

- donít expect much ability to interact with your child with the F seat compared to the normal J seat. Middle seats in traditional cw in particular are brilliant to genuinely be together, by contrast F seats, even the middle ones (which are still by far best for it) wonít enable you to physically reach out to a small child in the next seat without very significant effort and contorsion;

- do it if you are the one wanting to be in f but the argument that it would be great for the child is lost on me. Iíve seen countless children in j and f, and almost universally, they donít give a toss (no matter how often the parents would comment that their child looks so happy there. Most children indeed look very happy on planes, regardless of where they sit. It is exciting and they can feel their parents' usual happiness and it further boosts their morale). Most sleep on anything (you mention flat bed, thereís an age for which a y seat and your mum or dadís leg seem to feel to them as a perfect flat bed) and some get excited about the tv and toys (same everywhere for both). I think f and even j are meant to excite the parent, not the child whose experience will be largely unchanged (and thatís perfectly fine)

Last edited by orbitmic; Dec 25, 19 at 4:14 am
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Old Dec 24, 19, 9:59 pm
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Had one on our recent flight in F to LAX
Child used the 747 layout in F as a racetrack . Parent just let him use the cabin as a playroom.. Child repeatedly running past me in 2k. Very irritating!

.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 11:55 pm
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Had our 18 month old child with us in F for a return trip to SFO. He loved it and the space made it easy for both us to keep him entertained without disturbing others and for him to entertain himself.

Dine on demand and the companion seat were a huge help as well. We were able to ask for our dinner on both flights after our child had gone to sleep. He slept in one seat while we had dinner together in the other.

The beds are also big enough that my wife was able to sleep in the same bed as him. He was big enough that smothering was not a risk.

We found it a great way to travel with a young child. So many aspects of both the cabin and the service make travelling with a young child so much easier.
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Old Dec 25, 19, 12:41 am
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I have no problem with children in premium cabins as long as the parents don't leave their ability to act as parents at the airport check in desks.

I have taken my children in F and have no problems doing so again. However, my biggest issue in all our flights have been the attitude of others.

On boarding a recent flight to MIA, a middle aged couple barged past us when heading down the airbridge to be first to board. They'd already been given is evil looks when we went through the gate first. How dare we board ahead of F passengers.

Once they saw us turn left onto the plane the woman released a huge moan and you could see the look of despair on her face. Nice of you to judge me and my children without even knowing us.

Her face turned a lovely shade of puce when she saw we had rows one and two on the 747. Clearly she was not a happy traveller. Later in the flight the couple took it upon themselves to pass out the chocolates. Funnily enough they choose to ignore us.

I like to think of myself as a decent parent and both my kids were well behaved, except for one moment about 5 hours in when the then 2 year old bounded out of her seat and up the aisle. I was after her like a shot, and as I passed said woman she let out an audible ’for f**** sake’. Once in five hours my child had done something that could even loosely be regarded as disturbing to other passengers. I couldn’t help but give her a few home truths on my way past. Meanwhile the cabin crew had headed off the errant child before the galley and could see I wasn't happy. They were great. They could sense my annoyance and had clearly heard the woman’s comment. One of the Cabin crew provided a fresh glass of LPGS (I think it was only my second or third) and the other took my daughter off for a wander.

Later as we descended into MIA we went out into a long hold due to a thunderstorm over the airport. By this point seatbelt signs were on. However out toddler didn't want to remain in her seat with her seatbelt fastened. Not much I could do other than sit on the floor in front of her for a bit until the calmed. I was in full on bribery mode. Sweets, new toys etc! I was eventually able to return to my seat. Unfortunately the PA had developed a fault and persisted in omitting a loud continuous feedback right above row one. After at least ten minutes of this, the man from the pair got up (seat belt signs on) and marched to my daughters seat and had a good look around. He then turned to me and demanded to know what the noise was. Clearly he thought it was us. I simply pointed to the ceiling and he marched back to his seat. No apology for accusing us of allowing the noise. Yes it’s as disturbing but clearly it wasn’t us.

As for the couple, I saw of them a few times throughout the airport as we were met by special services and escorted through the airport.

For the OP, just remember your children are your responsibility. Sadly, you can’t be held responsible for the so-called grown ups onboard.

No more was heard from the woman until
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Old Dec 25, 19, 12:56 am
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Flew out to DXB a few days ago in CW, and while my little one slept on top of me for 4 of the 7 hour flight, I eventually had to move a tad...and woke her.

Naturally she stirred, was unhappy for about 3 loud minutes, and then didnt want to go back to sleep.

So, instead of her crying out when we suggested it was bedtime, she played with the seat and IFE buttons, sang, giggled, and had a jolly lovely time.

We were in the last row of CW, so out the way, and did our best to keep her quiet so other pax could sleep.

About an hour out of DXB, the passenger in 14A peered his head over my seat. I thought he would complain, but instead he started singing 'Old MacDonald had a farm' and my daughter, with all of her energy, screamed in delight 'E I E I OOOOO'.

Whoever you were 14A, thank you for being human! I hope those in F, on the way back, are as understanding!

M
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Old Dec 25, 19, 1:49 am
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We've been in first a few times with our lad and every time had a great experience with both the staff and other passengers.

One trip back from PHX was particularly good - as there was a small separate lounge just for BA first most of the other cabin had already come over to say hello and play a little with the kid before boarding. I think it helped they were all couples on holiday. Once on board it was very collegiate with people even offering to help hold him etc!

Just before take off we were joined by a last, single "businessman" passenger. The crew were slightly fawning over him (probably one of those golds that I hear are so important) and I heard them apologise about being close to a child. His reply was wonderful - "it's more my snoring you have to worry about disturbing the cabin!". True to his word he fell asleep pretty much immediately and contentedly snored his way to london

Have only carried ours as lap infant in first, so can't comment on the troubles or otherwise of having to manage a toddler in a separate seat.

Oh... merry Christmas!
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Old Dec 25, 19, 2:13 am
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Originally Posted by allturnleft View Post
Had one on our recent flight in F to LAX
Child used the 747 layout in F as a racetrack . Parent just let him use the cabin as a playroom.. Child repeatedly running past me in 2k. Very irritating!

.
Sadly, this kind of behaviour is the reason why I never go straight through on BA 15/16 or combination of 11/15 16/12 without taking at least one night stopover in Singapore, unless I'm really forced to fly straight through by schedule.

There is something seriously wrong when you have no choice but to ask to be downgraded from F to Y because of children running around screaming for the whole flight and you can't work or sleep because of the disruption, while parents are passed out due to excessive drinking (and I strongly suspect they also took sleeping pills) and wouldn't wake up to deal with them despite cabin crew members' best effort. Sadly, I couldn't even downgrade to Y or a jump seat because every single seat was taken. This happened on two consecutive trips in both directions, and that was the last straw for me. The bad luck with those flights were that there were multiple unruly children - so bad that even one of the children (an exceptionally well-behaved one with lovely mother) was distressed enough by the noise and running around that other children were doing that he could not sit in the cabin and cabin crew and I took turns to play with him to give his mother a bit of a break from playing with him.

There is nothing wrong with children in F or J if parents are committed to looking after them properly to minimise disruptions to others, but unfortunately, too many people aren't, and don't care what discomfort they (their children, but the fault is firmly with the parents, rather than the child) cause to others...

Besides all that, I do think that some thoughts need to go into the fact, as mentioned by others, that you can't actually reach the child easily in F, and cannot even see them at all in some seats, making it harder to look after them properly. No such problem with seat-less lap-child though!

If you are committed to at least make an effort to look after your child properly (and everyone will notice that you're making an effort, even if it's not always successful), then go for it, as long as you know the potential physical accessibility issues between seats in F (the main issue to worry about with accessibility is that if your child undoes the seat belt during take-off/landing/turbulence, you can't stop them, and they might end up hurting themselves.)
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Last edited by LTN Phobia; Dec 25, 19 at 9:23 pm
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Old Dec 25, 19, 3:21 am
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Our toddler is flying to Singapore in F in mid Jan. He's agreed to guest one adult into the CCR, provided they promise to keep themselves under control and behave. Please apply via PM.
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