WTP-Avios upgrade v AUP/POUG gamble

Old Dec 24, 19, 6:02 am
  #1  
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WTP-Avios upgrade v AUP/POUG gamble

Hi all,

I would like to make use of the good value WTP east coast fares which are unlikely I think to be cheaper come any potential boxing day sale (?) but would like to travel in CW as I need the TPs...however don't want to waste money doing so for my partner and would prefer to use miles for this upgrade for her...

What do you think about this? I think this would mean booking 2 separate PNRs - 1 booking WTP with immediate upgrade into avios space in CW and the other into WTP (T-class fare - this is fully upgradeable with avios etc?) and then hoping for an AUP or POUG...Is there more tax payable with this? Or just the uplift from WTP to CW in tax? (It's a few hundred more in cost to dummy book the WTP with avios upgrade)

Am I mad? We would want to sit together so appreciate it's a bit of a gamble... I can't afford the CW stand alone fare sadly.

Thoughts on a Christmas Eve postcard very welcome!
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:10 am
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There is no difference in tax bwtween WTP and CW APD is the same for both cabins.. There is likely additional BA surcharge though.

Given the current sale lasts until the end of January (almost easter!) I don't think there will be any Boxing Day offers.

It comes downto risk really. If you want to sit next to each other then I'd plan to stay in WTP as you'd be hoping 2 CW seats eerged.



(you might want to alert the mods to change your thread title - it looks like you want to avoid an upgrade not get an avios one!)
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:16 am
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Tax is the same in premium economy or business; however, BA's surcharges are typically £100 more each way in business from London (e.g., when upgrading with avios).

AUPs and POUGs are priced all inclusive, so you wouldn't pay any more fees on those.

Could you fly Club from Dublin or elsewhere and meet your partner on the flight?
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:23 am
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Originally Posted by muggle View Post
Am I mad? We would want to sit together so appreciate it's a bit of a gamble... I can't afford the CW stand alone fare sadly.
Without specifics you're only going to get vague musings, but if sitting together is important then the only way to ensure that is to book both tickets in WTP. You're still at liberty to go for the CW upgrade for the TPs but you will find someone willing to swap seats from WTP. Given the other parameters you have given, it's deliberately unknowable that you could get the AUP/POUG. It would seem better to UuA both tickets to CW at the moment of purchase.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:30 am
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Originally Posted by muggle View Post
Hi all,

I would like to make use of the good value WTP east coast fares which are unlikely I think to be cheaper come any potential boxing day sale (?) but would like to travel in CW as I need the TPs...however don't want to waste money doing so for my partner and would prefer to use miles for this upgrade for her...

What do you think about this? I think this would mean booking 2 separate PNRs - 1 booking WTP with immediate upgrade into avios space in CW and the other into WTP (T-class fare - this is fully upgradeable with avios etc?) and then hoping for an AUP or POUG...Is there more tax payable with this? Or just the uplift from WTP to CW in tax? (It's a few hundred more in cost to dummy book the WTP with avios upgrade)

Am I mad? We would want to sit together so appreciate it's a bit of a gamble... I can't afford the CW stand alone fare sadly.

Thoughts on a Christmas Eve postcard very welcome!
I don’t get it. You say you need the tier points - so presumably risking an AUP/POUG is a problem as if you stay in WTP you also lose out on the TPs you say you need. Also, you couldn’t use “your” name on the Avios upgraded seat as that would only get WTP tier points anyway, so I don’t see how any of this solves your tier points issue.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:41 am
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Thank all...could someone correct my typo - sorry last day at work and was typing too fast!

It's LHR-JFK likely on the 16th Jan - return 21st Jan.

There is CW Avios availability on 177 and 115 on outbound and on everything other than 178 and 112 on the return.

Cash fare WTP return is £546.17 but the UuA cost into CW is showing as £746.17 plus 48,000 avios. Is that right? It breaks down as £84 fare (!) and £662.17 taxes and fees. Does that sound right - £200 'fee to use avios'?! I would UuA but need the TPs for myself as i'm trying to requalify as gold again.

Also it's labelling flights including and after the 19.25 departure as 'sleeper service' - I thought this has disappeared and all flights were full service now?

x
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:44 am
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Originally Posted by HarryKUK View Post
I don’t get it. You say you need the tier points - so presumably risking an AUP/POUG is a problem as if you stay in WTP you also lose out on the TPs you say you need. Also, you couldn’t use “your” name on the Avios upgraded seat as that would only get WTP tier points anyway, so I don’t see how any of this solves your tier points issue.
Sorry for confusion - it's that I need to pay cash upgrade if available to get TPs (so not avios upgrade both at time of booking) and really AUP/POUG only realistic chances to obtain that as I fare still too high for me, and that I want to use avios to upgrade partner to both sit in CW (assuming I can pay to upgrade myself) as she doesn't care about TPs...
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Old Dec 24, 19, 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by muggle View Post
Cash fare WTP return is £546.17 but the UuA cost into CW is showing as £746.17 plus 48,000 avios. Is that right? It breaks down as £84 fare (!) and £662.17 taxes and fees. Does that sound right - £200 'fee to use avios'?! I would UuA but need the TPs for myself as i'm trying to requalify as gold again.
It's not a fee to use avios; it's the difference between WTP and CW fees charged. But the £200 return figure is correct.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:08 am
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Originally Posted by muggle View Post
Cash fare WTP return is £546.17 but the UuA cost into CW is showing as £746.17 plus 48,000 avios. Is that right? It breaks down as £84 fare (!) and £662.17 taxes and fees. Does that sound right - £200 'fee to use avios'?! I would UuA but need the TPs for myself as i'm trying to requalify as gold again.
Right, quite a few points to make here. Firstly the online UuA tool is often incorrect, and you are best to talk to book the WTP fare and then upgrade via an agent. Before you do so, you best look at the taxes, fees and surcharges and work out roughly what they should be. On NYC the WTP carrier surcharge is £200, and the CW fare - on a London departure - is £400. There are no meaningful differences in taxes (there would be for WT to WTP) and the only other difference would be in exchange rates, which will benefit you as often as they don't. So the UuA cash component should be £200 give or take. The reason for online tool's problem in this area is that it is being based on a different sort of WTP, whereas you appear to be looking at fare basis TLN4Z1M4, which seems to have some of the characteristics of a DIF ticket. Online BA can't seem to get DIF tickets into the WTP to CW UuA upgrade calculator.

On the other hand you have got the Avios amount correct, 48k per person.

The other point is that while they are offering DIFs on your flights, I'm somewhat puzzled they are offering redemptions, since for the NYC flights are getting fairly full. There is also a minimum stay aspect that may be getting in the way here. But if you did want to do cash CW then I'd travel on 14 January and look at the usual suspects such as GOT, ARN, AMS and so on for a European mainland fare. But particularly on 16 January then I wouldn't assume on POUGs or AUPs.

21 January, on the other hand, seems fairly quiet.

Also on that sector check the BA Holidays fares, that is the sort of sector where a hotel or car included may make sense.

If you go on the early flights to JFK and on the day flight back, then WTP both ways would seem a very tolerable bargain. Also consider BOS instead of NYC for an even shorter flight.

Finally I have no crystal ball about this, but if BA were to launch any special fares shortly, they could easily be of the BOGOF type and NYC is bound to be in scope for this.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:37 am
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Also if you book on two separate PNRs you won't be able to use your status to select a seat for your partner so unless she has status it will be pay or select at checkin.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 7:40 am
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Originally Posted by PaulN View Post
Also if you book on two separate PNRs you won't be able to use your status to select a seat for your partner so unless she has status it will be pay or select at checkin.
As the OP is gold, BA will arrange this manually as long as both travellers are in the same cabin.
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Old Dec 24, 19, 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by Cymro View Post
As the OP is gold, BA will arrange this manually as long as both travellers are in the same cabin.
I thought about that but up until the OP get a POUG or AUP they will be in different cabins so that wouldn't be an option?
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Old Dec 24, 19, 12:09 pm
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Right, quite a few points to make here. Firstly the online UuA tool is often incorrect, and you are best to talk to book the WTP fare and then upgrade via an agent. Before you do so, you best look at the taxes, fees and surcharges and work out roughly what they should be. On NYC the WTP carrier surcharge is £200, and the CW fare - on a London departure - is £400. There are no meaningful differences in taxes (there would be for WT to WTP) and the only other difference would be in exchange rates, which will benefit you as often as they don't. So the UuA cash component should be £200 give or take. The reason for online tool's problem in this area is that it is being based on a different sort of WTP, whereas you appear to be looking at fare basis TLN4Z1M4, which seems to have some of the characteristics of a DIF ticket. Online BA can't seem to get DIF tickets into the WTP to CW UuA upgrade calculator.

On the other hand you have got the Avios amount correct, 48k per person.

The other point is that while they are offering DIFs on your flights, I'm somewhat puzzled they are offering redemptions, since for the NYC flights are getting fairly full. There is also a minimum stay aspect that may be getting in the way here. But if you did want to do cash CW then I'd travel on 14 January and look at the usual suspects such as GOT, ARN, AMS and so on for a European mainland fare. But particularly on 16 January then I wouldn't assume on POUGs or AUPs.

21 January, on the other hand, seems fairly quiet.

Also on that sector check the BA Holidays fares, that is the sort of sector where a hotel or car included may make sense.

If you go on the early flights to JFK and on the day flight back, then WTP both ways would seem a very tolerable bargain. Also consider BOS instead of NYC for an even shorter flight.

Finally I have no crystal ball about this, but if BA were to launch any special fares shortly, they could easily be of the BOGOF type and NYC is bound to be in scope for this.
Thanks so much CWS!

Can I just check a couple of things, are you saying that as long as i can see the cash UuA component being £200 difference between cash WTP fare and UuA cash that's correct (and it it processes online) but if not I should call - trying to avoid 'offline service fees' or as DIF type ticket best to call anyway as IT can mess it up?

Sadly I can't travel 14th as I'm en route back from SJO via DFW (!) but have a month off work (clearing 2019 leave i'm owed!) so trying to max out the travel as much as possible. Very interesting what you're saying about loads re: potential POUG/AUP chances on 16th - very helpful. Do you think this is primed for a midnight revenue control reset and suddenly it might all disappear? The CW fares seems at the same price as revenue tickets (i know that doesn't really mean anything - it's all so blinking complicated)

I would be minded to wait until 27th just in case a luxury sale triggered a BOGOF c.2k deal and dates worked for me as it would ultimately save considerable stress unless the house of cards might collapse before then.

I have found JFK both ways totally fine in WTP before with enough wine, it's just the extra points (and avios to burn) and also the feeling of max'ing out my rest time by being in CW with a lot of flying just a few days before in J. I doubt i'll ever been allowed such a long time off in one chunk again.

THANK YOU
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Old Dec 24, 19, 12:45 pm
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Originally Posted by muggle View Post
Can I just check a couple of things, are you saying that as long as i can see the cash UuA component being £200 difference between cash WTP fare and UuA cash that's correct (and it it processes online) but if not I should call - trying to avoid 'offline service fees' or as DIF type ticket best to call anyway as IT can mess it up?
Yes. There aren't any service fees for UuA, but yes do it via a Contact Centre if online shows a figure greater than £200 give or take a few quid. If it does quote approximately £200 then you are good to go. Also all you are checking for is full redemption availability online, in which case UuA from WTP will also be available to you so long as it is a BA ticket and no other complications. The UuA button in MMB is not one of the more reliable aspects of BA's systems.

. Very interesting what you're saying about loads re: potential POUG/AUP chances on 16th - very helpful. Do you think this is primed for a midnight revenue control reset and suddenly it might all disappear?
Yes, you are right to make that assumption. Revenue doesn't necessarily wait for midnight, but redemptions do, and yes at some point it could go either way. At the moment it looks a busy day to New York but a few days of quiet sales over the Christmas period may freak out the robots and they go the other way.

I would be minded to wait until 27th just in case a luxury sale triggered a BOGOF c.2k deal and dates worked for me as it would ultimately save considerable stress unless the house of cards might collapse before then.
You have 24 hours to cancel for a full refund, so you could do it on Boxing Day as well. We can't make any assumptions here, BA may announce something on 29 December or whatever.
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Old Dec 25, 19, 12:31 am
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Yes. There aren't any service fees for UuA, but yes do it via a Contact Centre if online shows a figure greater than £200 give or take a few quid. If it does quote approximately £200 then you are good to go. Also all you are checking for is full redemption availability online, in which case UuA from WTP will also be available to you so long as it is a BA ticket and no other complications. The UuA button in MMB is not one of the more reliable aspects of BA's systems.
I have in the past did a few UuA from W to C and C to F from LHR to both JFK and SFO. And I cannot remember to have paid anything (or very small amounts) other than the extra Avios for the upgrade. Last time I did this was in April from C to F between LHR-PHL. Could it be because I start in OSL and not from LHR that I do not need to pay extra taxes?
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