BA slumps with passengers according to Which?
Dec 19, 2019, 9:50 pm
#61
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,989
I still get loads of them. Including ones about my lounge experience 10 minutes after I've entered GF
Dec 20, 2019, 2:40 am
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,517
Dec 20, 2019, 3:02 am
#63
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: LHR
Programs: BAEC Gold, SkyTeam Elite Plus, Sixt Gold
Posts: 418
A part from the methodology which is clearly flawed, I think BA also suffers from an expectation issue, especially in the era of low cost.
The average consumer, especially the cheap ones, tend to have low expectations from an Easyjet or an Airbnb, while when they set foot on a BA flight or a Hilton hotel room they expect red carpets to be rolled over and to be treated like VIPs, even if they are on a HBO fare or standard double.
I am exaggerating but you got my point.
BA has definitely slumped and the minor improvements they made did little to counter the huge gaps left in customer experience and IT, but to say that they are at the bottom of the list is just not credible.
The average consumer, especially the cheap ones, tend to have low expectations from an Easyjet or an Airbnb, while when they set foot on a BA flight or a Hilton hotel room they expect red carpets to be rolled over and to be treated like VIPs, even if they are on a HBO fare or standard double.
I am exaggerating but you got my point.
BA has definitely slumped and the minor improvements they made did little to counter the huge gaps left in customer experience and IT, but to say that they are at the bottom of the list is just not credible.
Dec 20, 2019, 3:20 am
#64
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: A3*G,BA Silver
Posts: 2,010
Nice try... You provided a link to some general information about BA not the ET cabin. 'Full service' may mean many things - having different classes of service, a FFP, offering connections etc - but it says nothing about the ET cabin specifically. I was talking about BA's description of ET cabin, as I clearly mentioned in my post.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...euro-traveller.
There is no mention of the word 'premium,' is there? The information about what one should expect in ET is rather clearly laid out.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...euro-traveller.
There is no mention of the word 'premium,' is there? The information about what one should expect in ET is rather clearly laid out.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...orld-traveller
Delicious meals and full bar service ( that must be the kit kat for breakfast and the usual run out of beer, sparkling water, wine etc)
Luxurious seats with greater recline ( probably referring to the 787 seats...)
Delicious assortment of fine foods designed by world renowned chefs ( again i have no idea what they are talking about)
Wherever and whenever you fly World Traveller you can expect the same top quality food, drink and warm service by our attentive crew
Now according to survey SQ came top. As a comparison
https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/g...economy-class/
No mention of delicious meals, luxurious seats, top quality food etc. This is why many people are getting angry, frustrated etc. BA most of the times charges premium fares for a Easyjet experience SH and AA experience LH.
Dec 20, 2019, 3:24 am
#65
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: KOI
Programs: BA
Posts: 309
POINT 1 - Seperate tickets
Flights from KOI are often delayed/cancelled, due to weather or bits falling of the LM SAAB 340, which will either mean missing the connection -OR- having to stay an extra day in EDI/LON/etc "just in case", which means extra cost and time. On about 25% of my trips, there will be a delayed bag, longest one arriving 3 months late, I cannot the take risk of "disconnected" ticket. 7 months ago, my brother in law got delayed on his KOI-GLA flight causing him to miss the LHR-SIN flight, BA put him in a hotel at LHR and then a SQ plane the next morning and, from what I was told here, EC261 as well.BA C
BA cost example
KOI-SIN - £701 - with ADS
LHR-SIN - £700
Total travel time: Around 40 hours
ADS effectively means my return from KOI-LHR costs £1 on a through ticket. An stand alone ADS KOI-LHR return costs around £250 or more.
ADS BA KOI - LHR return - £250
Overnight x 2 @ LHR - £100+
SQ LHR - SIN return - £600
Total travel time: 64 hours (assuming 12 hours overnight at LON connecting to SQ305)
POINT 2 - TK (and other airlines)
Finally, TK (and EK and KL/AF) can do KOI - SIN on one ticket, but they are not part of ADS, only BA and LM are. I did look into EK for by next trip, cost about the same or even slightly cheaper but far longer travel time (up to 40 hours each way).
KL/AF is more expensive.
It is not searchable on the TK website, only travel agents can do that.
Dec 20, 2019, 3:41 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
alvinlwh unfortunately you demonstrate you are part of BA’s captive market, and they have really no incentive to do anything to improve your experience since you’ll fly with them either way, given they are objectively the best option
Dec 20, 2019, 3:54 am
#67
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: KOI
Programs: BA
Posts: 309
No, you cannot declare yourself as a pet, your owner must do that. However, I suspect that airlines are not interested in your bedroom games.
Dec 20, 2019, 4:05 am
#68
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: KOI
Programs: BA
Posts: 309
alvinlwh unfortunately you demonstrate you are part of BA’s captive market, and they have really no incentive to do anything to improve your experience since you’ll fly with them either way, given they are objectively the best option
On a slightly different note, their ADS market is actually not as big as you will think. Most Highlanders and Islanders do not take BA or fly long haul, If they do, they will have a break of ticket to a budget airline (or take the boat to ABZ/INV for more options), take the risk of a missed connection or built an extra day or two into their trip. I pay more for the security of a through ticket but had seen the service dropped off a cliff after 2017.
Dec 20, 2019, 4:11 am
#69
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Incidentally it’s the same as our RASS scheme here- people whinge, nothing changes for the better, and in some cases the scheme gets scrapped because all everyone does is complain about it 😉
Last edited by nancypants; Dec 20, 2019 at 4:25 am
Dec 20, 2019, 6:18 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,517
A part from the methodology which is clearly flawed, I think BA also suffers from an expectation issue, especially in the era of low cost.
The average consumer, especially the cheap ones, tend to have low expectations from an Easyjet or an Airbnb, while when they set foot on a BA flight or a Hilton hotel room they expect red carpets to be rolled over and to be treated like VIPs, even if they are on a HBO fare or standard double.
The average consumer, especially the cheap ones, tend to have low expectations from an Easyjet or an Airbnb, while when they set foot on a BA flight or a Hilton hotel room they expect red carpets to be rolled over and to be treated like VIPs, even if they are on a HBO fare or standard double.
Sure, when it comes to evaluations, customers will be more easily disappointed by their BA experience which has gone less well than they hoped than by their FR experience which they always thought was going to be rubbish anyway. Before that, however, despite caricatural claims that passengers "only" choose on price, countless customers will have chosen to buy BA despite them being £10, 20, or 30 more than FR because they believe that this will represent higher value and imagine themselves "flying with the red carpet".
As for the question of whether BA "say" that they are such a red carpet airline or not, quite frankly, it is entirely irrelevant except in the bizarre world of FT where people, for some reason, seem to over legalise things all the time and worry about genuine or false claim. The point is that either way, people "expect" BA to offer a difference service than FR, that BA are certainly very happy with that perception and regularly entertain it (frankly, anyone saying otherwise should pay more attention when Alex Cruz speaks to the media, which he does regularly), and that you can't have it both ways: if people are judging more harshly because they held higher expectation of BA service at the time they flew, then surely, at the time they booked, this was either as true or even truer.
Unless the said customer is a masochistic dimwit, that more positive expectation will have played a role in them choosing BA. Where BA are cheaper and more convenient, then undoubtedly they would have booked BA anyway. Where BA is massively more expensive than, say, U2 and less convenient, undoubtedly the difference in expectations will not be enough to make the customer choose BA. But then, there are all those other cases where BA is either the same price or somewhat more expensive (how much will depend on how price-sensitive a given customer is) and BA is the same or a little bit les convenient (again, how much will depend on how convenience or timetable focused a customer is) and nevertheless the difference in expectations will have tipped the balance in favour of the legacy airline (in this case BA).
Over the course of a year, it is vast amounts of money that such a positive differential in expectations will add to BA's coffers, so to me, to say that BA are "suffering" from this difference in expectations is a bit like considering the case of a billionaire and feeling sorry that the poor man must be paying lots of tax. It is of course technically correct, but it remains a tree that hides the forest...
Dec 20, 2019, 7:18 am
#71
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 112
Anecdotally, last year from November on space to almost any destination on any airline was almost impossible to get without a 2 week plus wait. This year, the opposite is true. I can almost name my rate with the carriers (with a few route specific exceptions). This is one area where BA, regardless of their policies (and at Heathrow they are the dictionary definition of useless at their main Ascentis building) will struggle to buck a downward trend.
Dec 20, 2019, 7:44 am
#72
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
The drop in cargo is across the board and has no particular relation to BA.
Anecdotally, last year from November on space to almost any destination on any airline was almost impossible to get without a 2 week plus wait. This year, the opposite is true. I can almost name my rate with the carriers (with a few route specific exceptions). This is one area where BA, regardless of their policies (and at Heathrow they are the dictionary definition of useless at their main Ascentis building) will struggle to buck a downward trend.
Anecdotally, last year from November on space to almost any destination on any airline was almost impossible to get without a 2 week plus wait. This year, the opposite is true. I can almost name my rate with the carriers (with a few route specific exceptions). This is one area where BA, regardless of their policies (and at Heathrow they are the dictionary definition of useless at their main Ascentis building) will struggle to buck a downward trend.
Dec 20, 2019, 7:49 am
#73
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 610
I agree with you that customers undoubtedly hold different expectations about BA and FR, but isn't framing this as BA "suffering" from an expectation issue looking at things from the most counter-intuitive end of the stick that there might be?
Sure, when it comes to evaluations, customers will be more easily disappointed by their BA experience which has gone less well than they hoped than by their FR experience which they always thought was going to be rubbish anyway. Before that, however, despite caricatural claims that passengers "only" choose on price, countless customers will have chosen to buy BA despite them being £10, 20, or 30 more than FR because they believe that this will represent higher value and imagine themselves "flying with the red carpet".
As for the question of whether BA "say" that they are such a red carpet airline or not, quite frankly, it is entirely irrelevant except in the bizarre world of FT where people, for some reason, seem to over legalise things all the time and worry about genuine or false claim. The point is that either way, people "expect" BA to offer a difference service than FR, that BA are certainly very happy with that perception and regularly entertain it (frankly, anyone saying otherwise should pay more attention when Alex Cruz speaks to the media, which he does regularly), and that you can't have it both ways: if people are judging more harshly because they held higher expectation of BA service at the time they flew, then surely, at the time they booked, this was either as true or even truer.
Unless the said customer is a masochistic dimwit, that more positive expectation will have played a role in them choosing BA. Where BA are cheaper and more convenient, then undoubtedly they would have booked BA anyway. Where BA is massively more expensive than, say, U2 and less convenient, undoubtedly the difference in expectations will not be enough to make the customer choose BA. But then, there are all those other cases where BA is either the same price or somewhat more expensive (how much will depend on how price-sensitive a given customer is) and BA is the same or a little bit les convenient (again, how much will depend on how convenience or timetable focused a customer is) and nevertheless the difference in expectations will have tipped the balance in favour of the legacy airline (in this case BA).
Over the course of a year, it is vast amounts of money that such a positive differential in expectations will add to BA's coffers, so to me, to say that BA are "suffering" from this difference in expectations is a bit like considering the case of a billionaire and feeling sorry that the poor man must be paying lots of tax. It is of course technically correct, but it remains a tree that hides the forest...
Sure, when it comes to evaluations, customers will be more easily disappointed by their BA experience which has gone less well than they hoped than by their FR experience which they always thought was going to be rubbish anyway. Before that, however, despite caricatural claims that passengers "only" choose on price, countless customers will have chosen to buy BA despite them being £10, 20, or 30 more than FR because they believe that this will represent higher value and imagine themselves "flying with the red carpet".
As for the question of whether BA "say" that they are such a red carpet airline or not, quite frankly, it is entirely irrelevant except in the bizarre world of FT where people, for some reason, seem to over legalise things all the time and worry about genuine or false claim. The point is that either way, people "expect" BA to offer a difference service than FR, that BA are certainly very happy with that perception and regularly entertain it (frankly, anyone saying otherwise should pay more attention when Alex Cruz speaks to the media, which he does regularly), and that you can't have it both ways: if people are judging more harshly because they held higher expectation of BA service at the time they flew, then surely, at the time they booked, this was either as true or even truer.
Unless the said customer is a masochistic dimwit, that more positive expectation will have played a role in them choosing BA. Where BA are cheaper and more convenient, then undoubtedly they would have booked BA anyway. Where BA is massively more expensive than, say, U2 and less convenient, undoubtedly the difference in expectations will not be enough to make the customer choose BA. But then, there are all those other cases where BA is either the same price or somewhat more expensive (how much will depend on how price-sensitive a given customer is) and BA is the same or a little bit les convenient (again, how much will depend on how convenience or timetable focused a customer is) and nevertheless the difference in expectations will have tipped the balance in favour of the legacy airline (in this case BA).
Over the course of a year, it is vast amounts of money that such a positive differential in expectations will add to BA's coffers, so to me, to say that BA are "suffering" from this difference in expectations is a bit like considering the case of a billionaire and feeling sorry that the poor man must be paying lots of tax. It is of course technically correct, but it remains a tree that hides the forest...
I feel like i am one of these customers. I am a lowly blue. i go short haul roughly once a month and long haul about twice a year... I rarely use BA for short haul anymore and dont really I would pay £15 more SH and £30-£40 more LH to fly BA previously (im talking including various airports in london and at final destinations) before , around 2014, if BA was flying to where i was going for the following:
- On long haul, the aviios rewards were excellent- they are a joke if you fly on economy now with no status
- On long haul, in economy, the seats were a good size and you would be greeted with a toothbrush and toothpaste.
- On long haul, BA stewardesses seem like they were the enjoying their job, even in economy.
- On short haul, i could chose my seat within 24 hours at OLCI
- food and drinks
- no such thing as HBO fares so i wouldnt have to worry if my cabin bag would get on
- i would be allowed to take a duty free bag on (in addition to the personal bag and the cabin bag)
- the gate agents at LHR were more pleasant.
Whereas before i would go out of my way to fly BA, i now i go out of my way to avoid it. While i dont expect much when i fly Ryanair, i pay a fraction of what i pay with BA.. rarely are their cheap flights available (im going to holland in March - i paid £41 on ryanair. I just looked at the exact same dates and i would be paying £99 with BA).
Dec 20, 2019, 9:31 am
#74
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
For me, other people’s opinions of an airline that I fly regularly and know what to expect matter very little- if I didn’t fly regularly I would prob be concerned by the results, and your opinion may differ as whether you would or would not be right to worry.
Meanwhile BA have been fab for me whilst I’m currently an inpatient in hospital, flights on hold, cleared to carry drugs on the future flights that come with needles etc.
Meanwhile BA have been fab for me whilst I’m currently an inpatient in hospital, flights on hold, cleared to carry drugs on the future flights that come with needles etc.
Dec 20, 2019, 9:43 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 4
BA is horrible...period. 777 business class is 8 across. You have to step over peoples legs to get into a seat that would be coach on any other airline. How they can even call it business class is a joke.