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-   -   WT Hand Baggage Fare Seat Selection Con? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1998873-wt-hand-baggage-fare-seat-selection-con.html)

navylad Dec 8, 19 3:43 pm

So I’d suggest that TS is entirely used for positive reasons- enduring status pax get the best experience, pax with accessibility issues/families are catered as far as possible to sit together, yet with seen the app, whom we can of course sympathise had we not had the knowledge, make an assumption that BA are doing things for the wrong reasons

Hopefully the OP will have a nice flight home

Kgmm77 Dec 8, 19 4:05 pm


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 31819363)
Indeed, what Theoretical Seating does is that it rectifies an oddity. Typically, in the pre-TS world, the so called "high value customers" (HVC - ie high status or full fare) would typically assign seats at the front of their cabin (nice because they are first out, better placed for food choice, etc) leaving less privileged customer to first fill in windows and aisles further back. Later on, however, if the plane was - say - 3/4 full (close to the average in the industry in fact) and some middle seats had to be taken, people would choose them in the front rows too (in between two HVC) whilst the back would retain its empty middle seats. So if you were HVC, you were less likely to have a free middle seat unless you decided to use your seat selection paradoxically, ie assign a less desirable seat near the back in the hope nobody else would bother (and that was even before BA introduced different seats in different parts of the cabin, though in fact many airlines had higher seat pitch in the first 10 or 12 rows). I remember those days very well, for instance when KL first introduced free seat assignments for FB Platinums and basically, we'd all be congregated in the packed first few rows whilst there would be entirely free rows nearer the back.

Instead, theoretical seating goes back to the airline's intention which is - rightly or wrongly - to give greater seat advantages to its HVC ie better rows AND greater likelihood of free middle seats or even entire row. It does that by slicing the cabin in segments (giving far more seats than needed if at all possible to its HVC whilst giving regular folks fairly full rows) and even blocking specific seats (typically middles, sometimes aisles to ensure that even by "mistake", those HVC won't come to squeeze each other just because they all want the first row.

The whole point - and again, I am not saying that this is right or wrong - is that we are not all playing on a level play field and that is what the airline is choosing to do. Now with improvement to loads, very often, this is no longer a real benefit bar for a few passengers (TS can be quite subtle actually) but even on empty ones, that is the choice BA and others do - they decide which passengers will likely get a full row to themselves by not offering certain sections of the plane to passengers who might like them. It is frustrating for them, but obviously a major benefit for HVCs.


Originally Posted by navylad (Post 31819377)
So I’d suggest that TS is entirely used for positive reasons- enduring status pax get the best experience, pax with accessibility issues/families are catered as far as possible to sit together, yet with seen the app, whom we can of course sympathise had we not had the knowledge, make an assumption that BA are doing things for the wrong reasons

Hopefully the OP will have a nice flight home

I’m fairly sure Theoretical Seating wouldn’t have got past the business case stage without having a positive cash flow assessment.

BA recent financial performance vs peers is entirely rooted in disaggregating and (by and large successfully) monetising each incremental step of the passenger journey.

Forgive me for not buying any argument which has altruism or even long-term reward at its core.

navylad Dec 8, 19 4:45 pm


Originally Posted by Kgmm77 (Post 31819441)
I’m fairly sure Theoretical Seating wouldn’t have got past the business case stage without having a positive cash flow assessment.

BA recent financial performance vs peers is entirely rooted in disaggregating and (by and large successfully) monetising each incremental step of the passenger journey.

Forgive me for not buying any argument which has altruism or even long-term reward at its core.

Your forgiven. Personally, I think it increases revenue by reward loyalty. As others have already pointed out, if BA wanted to make as much money as possible then it would show the widest range of available seats and just charge more for what is blocked by TS.

I’m not saying they don’t make money out of it- but I don’t buy into the ‘woo is me’ they’re making money deceptively; they offer a range of fares, some of which come with seating including some of which don’t, those that don’t allow for selection based on status and type of ticket sold to change seats for a fee.

HIDDY Dec 8, 19 5:09 pm


Originally Posted by navylad (Post 31819510)
Your forgiven. Personally, I think it increases revenue by reward loyalty. As others have already pointed out, if BA wanted to make as much money as possible then it would should the widest range of available seats and just charge more for what is blocked by TS.

I’m not saying they don’t make money out of it- but I don’t buy into the ‘woo is me’ they’re making money deceptively; they offer a range of fares, some of which come with seating including some of which don’t, those that don’t allow for selection based on status and type of ticket sold to change seats for a fee.

I think that's a sensible view. Interesting to see many of the negative views come from those who actually benefit the most....those who have status. For people like me who have no status it's been refreshing to see. I never thought they cared. ^
Anyway, I remember the pre internet days when like most people I didn't select a seat in economy until I turned up at check-in.

wilsnunn Dec 9, 19 2:37 am


Originally Posted by madfish (Post 31818474)
Try a dummy booking or subscribe to expert flyer. See what either of these reveal.


Originally Posted by Oil-man (Post 31818723)
Thanks for this explanation. On my outbound flight BA must have blocked 100++ economy seats, as they weren’t filled on the flight and they certainly weren’t open for purchase.

I’ve now subscribed to expert flyer on the trial basis, and if I understand it correctly, it shows 57 blocked seats in economy on tomorrow’s flight, including the middle seat next to me. Although the middle seat next to me is only blocked, I had incorrectly assumed it was occupied (it may well be in the end) and this may fuel my desire to pay to move seat.

These numerous blocked seats certainly give the impression that the flight is fuller than it is, and whether intentional or not, I believe it will fuel seat purchases.

I do hope BA are not using the flexibility to block seats to drive revenue.

You can view seatmaps on ExpertFlyer without having to pay, so if all you want to do is see seat maps then you do not need to worry about usding the trial etc.

Simply create a free account, press "Create Seat Alert", enter your flight details, pick a cabin (note that for free you can only see one cabin at a time), press search and voila your seatmap will be showing.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 9, 19 2:54 am

4 Attachment(s)
So an update for Singapore afternoon on the day of departure.

The SIN point of sale gives
F0 A0 J0 C0 D0 R0 I0 W0 E0 T0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O0 G9
which suggests WT is not oversold but the rest of the aircraft is full. However that is not to say WT is empty, indeed most of the status led TS blocks in the upper deck have gone, 71K and 80K being among the few of the lucky ones. There are still other TS blocks showing however.

If I remember I'll do an update just before departure.

Information courtesy of ExpertFlyer.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 9, 19 8:14 am

2 Attachment(s)
Well they are nearly finished boarding at gate C25, it's down as Gate Closing on the monitors, and here is the near-final boarding. If they didn't clear all the staff standbys earlier there may be one or two changes, but usually not at this point.

The A380 is completely full in First, Club World and World Traveller Plus. There are 9 empty seats in World Traveller out of 303, 4 on the lower deck. Consequently BA filled 460 seats out of a maximum 469 passengers, so I think RevMgmt will chalk that up as a win.

orbitmic Dec 9, 19 8:39 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 31821286)
Well they are nearly finished boarding at gate C25, it's down as Gate Closing on the monitors, and here is the near-final boarding. If they didn't clear all the staff standbys earlier there may be one or two changes, but usually not at this point.

The A380 is completely full in First, Club World and World Traveller Plus. There are 9 empty seats in World Traveller out of 303, 4 on the lower deck. Consequently BA filled 460 seats out of a maximum 469 passengers, so I think RevMgmt will chalk that up as a win.

And if the op chose to keep his free middle in hope of getting something better onboard, it’s unlikely that he will have succeeded... hopefully for him, he managed to convince a sympathetic agent to move him...


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