BA, the low cost carrier LHR-IST

Old Nov 30, 19, 4:24 pm
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BA, the low cost carrier LHR-IST

i must say I booked BA LHR-IST ET return for 130 GBP for feb, quite a bit cheaper than TK. I guess with the effects of outclassed competition, BA can only get passengers at a crazy cheap price (30% lower) versus the competition! Well they won my business, if only they were outclassed like this on other routes as well so we see low prices like this on other routes out of LHR!

for me this is the route where BA is really bad in ET versus the direct competition, and it shows in the price.

upgrades being sold for 129 GBP, no thanks I’ll just make sure I get on the plane with a full stomach!
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Old Nov 30, 19, 4:34 pm
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If your ticket was 30 percent cheaper, perhaps you can forgive those who do not want to pay GBP55 more for the return for the privilege to ‘enjoy’ a GBP3 meal. Given that most people just want to get to their destination it is no wonder that they do not want to overpay for a meal that they may not want in the first place.
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Old Nov 30, 19, 4:39 pm
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Originally Posted by Andriyko View Post
If your ticket was 30 percent cheaper, perhaps you can forgive those who do not want to pay GBP55 more for the return for the privilege to ‘enjoy’ a GBP3 meal. Given that most people just want to get to their destination it is no wonder that they do not want to overpay for a meal that they may not want in the first place.
absolutely!
however if I am paying 600 GBP return for ET, I want a decent meal

this price is due to BA’s competition being much better than them on this route. When they have the LHR monopoly they do as they please
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Old Nov 30, 19, 4:53 pm
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If you wanted something to eat all you had to do was ask.
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Old Nov 30, 19, 6:42 pm
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In other words TK probably has higher margins on their Y tickets than BA. Penny wise, pound foolish...
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Old Nov 30, 19, 8:50 pm
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Originally Posted by HIDDY View Post
If you wanted something to eat all you had to do was ask.
not true you must pay for food
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Old Nov 30, 19, 9:57 pm
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I guess IST is one of those 'grey area' routes where the direct competition treat the route to a long haul international specification despite that not fitting into BA's forward vision for how they want to operate on that route.

I see that as a good thing - for the fact both carriers compete on route and airports in the 'full service arena' despite the offering being at pole opposites of each other. You've still got choice to buy whichever product meets your needs and BA is helping to differentiate that with cost making it even easier for people to decide as nothing is exactly like for like. The way I see it is that you need to look on at Club Europe on this route not as a Business Class product but as a direct competition to TK Economy and stack up the economics between those two products. BA Euro Traveller would stack up against Atlas Air, Pegasus and Easyjet. TK Business being unmatchable in the sense it's the best on route and nothing comes close product wise. Look at it that way and compare what you actually get for your money, ignore what the product is called and buy whichever meets your needs.

If BA were that worried they were losing out on lucrative business I'm sure IST would have gone the way of TLV and DME and been upgraded to a long haul product by now. For the fact it hasn't suggests BA aren't losing out or there's not enough big money to be had on the route (full J passengers or lucrative cargo) to make it worth their while. And even if it did and there was a 3 or 4 Clsss 777 service deployed on Istanbul as of tomorrow, as far as getting a decent meal service in Economy goes on a comparable route (eg DME or TLV) I fear you'd end up disappointed compared to the Do&Co catering of TK.

Incidentally Turkish Airlines are heavily subsidised by the Turkish Government. In any event the EU decide to allow Turkey to join up then all of that would have to stop under EU law. It would be very interesting if that were to ever happen - specifically as to how long it would take TK to remodel itself into a cost effective business model of fleet, network and product instead of worldwide domination regardless to cost that it seems to be hell bent on accomplishing for the best part of the last 20 years... And still is

Last edited by 1Aturnleft; Nov 30, 19 at 10:18 pm
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Old Nov 30, 19, 10:51 pm
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A large part of the traffic on that route for both airlines is connections. They try to poach each other’s long haul customers, ba on price plus network density going north west, tk on price, service, and network density going south east.

TK has a larger connection share so have fewer seats to fill with nonstop, which is why they charge more, not because of service differential; ba has a lower share of the connecting (and overall) traffic which is why they offer cheaper entry fares, not because of/thanks to reduced offerings.

if you pay £130 return it’s hard to complain about what you get especially when one (at least flyertalkers) would be very aware of that at time of booking. If ba wants you to shell out £600 on the same then just buy TK for better service or low cost airlines if they are cheaper.
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Old Nov 30, 19, 11:35 pm
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Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post

Incidentally Turkish Airlines are heavily subsidised by the Turkish Government. In any event the EU decide to allow Turkey to join up then all of that would have to stop under EU law. It would be very interesting if that were to ever happen - specifically as to how long it would take TK to remodel itself into a cost effective business model of fleet, network and product instead of worldwide domination regardless to cost that it seems to be hell bent on accomplishing for the best part of the last 20 years... And still is
Again?

TK is a publicly traded Company (with Turkish government owning some shares, but the same is with e.g. AY and Finnish government). 1 minute Google search gets you links to their (audited) Annual Reports and financial results. Even AA that moans about ME3 never mentioned TK.
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Old Nov 30, 19, 11:47 pm
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Originally Posted by TPJ View Post
Again?

TK is a publicly traded Company (with Turkish government owning some shares, but the same is with e.g. AY and Finnish government). 1 minute Google search gets you links to their (audited) Annual Reports and financial results. Even AA that moans about ME3 never mentioned TK.
Yes I should have googled more diligently.
The TK trail is more credible than I had thought.
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Old Dec 1, 19, 12:05 am
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Originally Posted by TPJ View Post
Again?

TK is a publicly traded Company (with Turkish government owning some shares, but the same is with e.g. AY and Finnish government). 1 minute Google search gets you links to their (audited) Annual Reports and financial results. Even AA that moans about ME3 never mentioned TK.
Well, they've started listing the company in 2004, with some 20% of shares offered publicly, after the first big order of planes that launched their expansion. And I say that as a fan of the airline, don't get me wrong. Extremely decent in Y and great coverage of the parts of the world I like (unlike oneworld).
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Old Dec 1, 19, 12:12 am
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Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post
And even if it did and there was a 3 or 4 Clsss 777 service deployed on Istanbul as of tomorrow, as far as getting a decent meal service in Economy goes on a comparable route (eg DME or TLV) I fear you'd end up disappointed compared to the Do&Co catering of TK.
Isn't BA catered/going to be catered out of LHR by Do&Co?
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Old Dec 1, 19, 12:24 am
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Originally Posted by steveholt View Post
Isn't BA catered/going to be catered out of LHR by Do&Co?
Yes I believe it is on the cards.
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Old Dec 1, 19, 12:45 am
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Originally Posted by steveholt View Post
Isn't BA catered/going to be catered out of LHR by Do&Co?
Heathrow long haul will. Eventually.
Currently Club Europe ex LHR plus selected Club World/First routes are catered by Do&Co. Everything else long haul out of Heathrow inc all of World Traveller is catered by Gate Gourmet.
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Old Dec 1, 19, 1:27 am
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Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post
I as far as getting a decent meal service in Economy goes on a comparable route (eg DME or TLV) I fear you'd end up disappointed compared to the Do&Co catering of TK.
I've flown TK once or twice a year for the past 4 or 5 years but in all honesty, besides the dessert, it's more or less always a case of köfte with bulgur or pasta at lunch at dinner, or the toast with frittata in the morning, and during the years the Turkish delight has gone from economy and so has the menu.

Sure, better than whatever M&S crap is on sale on BoB but... not that memorable either.
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